Mandy's Tournament - Week 1 Thread

[Sharkerbob]

That's why you write contingencies. I never just write a linear strat - there is always an element of accounting for other possibilities.

Here, debate just seems.... pointless. No matter what you say, the opponent can write a counter to it AFTER you've said it which is kinda like walking in to the opponent's dressing room before a sports match and saying "by the way, here are our tactics, do whatever you think is best to counter them".

For instance, if I was writing a strategy, I'd have Raven use her item assortment to completely and utterly protect my team's minds against telepathy. Then, if someone tried to use telepathy in a strat, it would fail.

Now, if I say "Raven protects my team against telepathy", they could just say "my fastest character is therefore going to kill her IMMEDIATELY!" which they shouldn't be able to say, because there is absolutely no way that they could DEFINITELY have known that she was going to do that. They might say "well I knew she'd do that", but there's no proof of that unless a pre-written strategy is written.

Basically, a clever, inventive or totally game-changing tactic could just be completely ruled out because the opposition say they have a way of countering it which they're only doing because they know what your plan was. Or it could be completely ruled out because someone who isn't even participating in the match doesn't like the idea of that being a possibility, so they just dismiss it.

It's essentially going to come down to "I want this to happen/I want this team to win/I want this person to lose, so that's how I'll vote". The end result at the end of the season is therefore going to be a winner who has won because of an array of scenarios that a group of people who don't know your team as well as you do have decided that they want to happen.

If it was bloodlusted, it would make more sense. But when it's in character, it simply doesn't. Whoever wins hasn't achieved anything, hence my lack of motivation - I wouldn't feel happy/proud if I won without having earned that myself, but I'd be highly frustrated if I lost because other people decided what my team did for me.

One of the most hated things in Rumblers League was when people wrote in their strategies what they thought the opposition would do. And this is basically a whole season of nothing but that.

I can see your point there, and how it'd be frustrating and lackluster for someone like yourself, who really plays these to win.

Me personally, I just don't have much patience for lengthy debate or going in circles with if-this-then-that, I'm just a "well, this is what my guys can do, take it or leave it" sort of person, so this sort of strats-free approach is more ideal for me. However, I admit my method isn't very competitive, so, not like I'd recommend it or anything.

[Bobisbeast]

I'm just going to post a rudimentary strategy here, with the rough outline of what moves my characters will be doing,

DiabloCrawler/Hiro: Hiro will begin by slowing time, whilst holding on to Diablocrawler, the pair will then teleport around five feet behind the opposing team, Diablocrawler will utilize one of his alchemical potions/pellets stored in his suit to turn Invisible Woman,Darwin and then Hydroman, into salt. He'll then begin teleporting all over the place, stopping behind each enemy for as short a period of time, and teleporting their heads/other vital parts of them, towards the other side of the battle field, starting with Zoro,then Darwin, Shadowcat, Karnak, black panther, and anyone else still in play.

Meanwhile, Hiro will begin teleporting various enemy's items back to where the rest of the team is located,using the Noor stone, starting with the Rabbit Talisman, and then moving on to any other still in play important items. Hiro will be slowing time for all, until Diablocrawler finishes his alchemical vial transmutation moves. He'll keep at the item transporting game until anyone attacks him physically, in which he'll use time manipulation/toxin powers to fight them.

Aang-At the bell, Aang will utilize the Muur Talisman to transform all members of the opposing team that could be affected by it, almost all of the opposing team, as well as the various nooks running around, into rakghouls, they will all be directed to attack remaining members of the opposing team. Aang will use his elemental powers to try and stop opposing blitzes/attempts to move across the field, and/or attack any enemies near or at our castle.

Purple Man- will use his new telepathic powers to start, attacking Hydroman at first and then others mentally. If any enemies get close to him, he'll use his voice to control them, via the pheremones he's always releasing, and command them to attack themselves.

Dementor- In this situation there is literally no one who can detect him, he is immune to both magical and technological detection, is invisible, and by his very nature can only be seen by wizards/witches. He'll fly over to the opposing side, and steal any surviving enemies souls one by one.
Deadman- Also remains relatively undetectable, he'll fly over to the opposing castle as well, and posses any enemy still in play, and make them attack other members of the opposing team.

[moonknight11]

I'll write a lengthier argument later but for now I'll say only a few things. To start it off, Fantomex is a mach 3 speedster and he's immune to Jasmine's powers(nanites in his neocortex protect him). He's gunning for her from the beginning and should d-dump her with ease. No one can take him on anyway. Luke Skywalker stops time and unleashes his Telekinesis, on the enemy and takes on Exar Kun. My 4 telepaths will steamroll through the minds of Stigma's team. They shut down brains, with little resistance.

[Dalak]

Strat and Free-form both have their pros and cons, but regardless both are fun to me. Losing when no one believes your arguments vs forgetting/misusing 1 word in a contingency/strat and losing via Technicality . . . I'm not going to get into which is more infuriating.

If I'm suddenly thrown in this first week . . . I'm not sure how much time I'll have to debate. I haven't been as active of late due to business, but I'll do what I can. I've got very adaptable people capable of many varied ways of attacking and locating their enemies, even in the midst of Katrina. D-Dumps, Time Tricks, Super-Obscure Pressure Points & Martial Arts, even a Pre-Cog with a Reverse-button able to rewind time and slow it even if the Time-Stop is nulled.

[KJ Stewart]

Right, I'll give it a chance. I really don't know how to go about making an argument that isn't definitive (as ultimately people have the opportunity to completely ignore it and make their own minds up), but I'll make one comprehensive post either later today or early tomorrow and just see how it goes. However, I do still think that the likely conclusion will be that I don't continue. I've given an opinion but, for the sake of argument, I will see what happens. If I'm not going to be removed from week 1, I may as well not give Mandy a free win, which is kinda unfair on everyone else.

[Randy Mandy]

That's actually kind of a relief, since I really wasn't too sure of what to do.

Throwing in Dalak with no forewarning wouldn't have been cool, getting a free win reprehensible and voiding the match double pointless, since I made a point of keeping your team in the competition for the week.

Do you need any info about my team, besides what the profile provides?

[KJ Stewart]

That's actually kind of a relief, since I really wasn't too sure of what to do.

Throwing in Dalak with no forewarning wouldn't have been cool, getting a free win reprehensible and voiding the match double pointless, since I made a point of keeping your team in the competition for the week.

Do you need any info about my team, besides what the profile provides?

No that's fine thanks. I'm not making much of a big deal of it anyway. I just didn't want any matches to be made entirely non-competitive because of me. I know how much of an annoyance that can be.

[Randy Mandy]

WEEK 1 FIGHT 2

BOBISBEAST

VS

AJ VALLIANT

The chessboard is more quaint than anything else and unlikely to have a major influence in the match, so for me it comes down to the team breakdown.

Bobisbeast

Giving Aang the power blessing is cool. Giving Aang the Muur talisman is not.

Sure, nominally the fact that Aang is an amazingly powerful medium gives good synergies, but this is a kind of power that Aang would fight tooth and nail against. I wouldn't see it as a good combo in a more standard RL situation, much less here.

Deadman is Deadman. A known quantity and all that.

A completely invisible and stealthed Dementor is pretty flipping scary and its item nothing to laugh at.

The fusion character? Pretty flipping scary, though I am a bit unsure of the finer points of the Diablo character (I know that he does a number of impressive-for-his-weight class things with alchemy, not sure of all the specifics).

Hiro with the Noor stone is pretty ace. The symbiote I am less crazy about, but seeing that it is a rare heroic symbiote I guess that Hiro could go for it.

Telepathic, supervamp Purple Man is nuts. Poisonous, addictive nuts.

Overall, a team with more haxx than ooomph which covers most of the relevant corners, despite one questionable item allocation.

AJ Valliant

Black Batman is good, but he is inadequate against... well, pretty much every character in the enemy team. Except Aang. Maybe. Perhaps. Don't know the Glaive Krull or what it does, would need some explanation about it. The Spellstone and high level weather control is pretty good, though I'd bet on Aang being able to counter it to an extent.

Brook is... instrumental. No pun intended. He is fast. He has remarkably effective hypnotic techniques. And he can feel souls. Not sure how the Muramasa would fare against intangibles, but the dementor is perhaps the one character this skeleton cannot incapacitate or kill, because I am pretty sure that Brook can handle Deadman.

Darwin's situational evolution is really a pretty cool thing to have in a freeform setting, since it gives you an arguable out against most anything the opposite team can throw your way. Not sure what could be accomplished with the transformation gun, besides bad sex jokes.

Hydro-Man is relatively hard to put down, though the lack of nearby water sources somewhat limits his effectiveness. That said, it'd appear that I hadn't realized quite how powerful his power blessing is... supposing that the wiki reference to Energizer taking down Kurse is correct.

Invisible Woman with Venom is scary, although I have to question somewhat the item allocation. Venom is not quite the class of partner that Sue would like... though I guess this could be Venom in one of his rare heroic/non villainous periods.

Karnak is a devastating bruiser. His items make him an even more scary bruiser. Impressive, but limited.

Zoro is fast, strong and scary on his own. So much so that the Rabbit seems almost a waste, though that it is there kind of removes any doubts about who is gonna be doing the blitzing here. Megingjord adds further insult to injury. And the Zero Metal weapon makes him dead on two legs for everything and anything in the other side of the field.

Kitty is an old favorite of mine, though likely too slow and short ranged to put her abilities to good use here. Not sure about the full capabilities of the T-Spheres.

Overall, a speed and power team with some glaring weaknesses, but potent in its own way.

So...

How do I see things going down

Zoro blitzes. Definitely. And Aang is the only one in the other side of the field against whom he is likely to hold back, meaning that any number of guys in the other side are going down and particularly the villain characters (read: Purple Man).

Next, the symbiotes, Brook and perhaps Purple Man and the Diablo/Nightcrawler combination should start doing stuff (depends on how good the Sword superspeed is), though I expect Purple Man and the fusion being either incapacitated (regeneration and such) or dead. Also, I am not sure of how Sue stands against telepathy, but I think that she knows Purple Man (through reputation if nothing else), so she should have no issue doing bad stuff to him with her forcefields. How useful that turns out to be against the super-regeneration of La Magra is another story, of course.

Finally, the relative slow-pokes step in. Aang is counterable to an extent through the Spellstone and Hydroman, the Muur talisman only would be effective against Black Panther of the AJ team. Deadman can try to hop into somebody if he hasn't been taken out by Zoro or Brook at this point. The Dementor can try to kiss folks. Karnak can run to the other side of the field to see if there is someone he can punch. Darwin can do whatever that gun of his lets him do, protected somewhat by his "get free of jail" power. Hydro-Man can see if he can blow some serious shit up. And Kitty... Well, see above.

Overall, I find myself favoring AJ's odds, because of the blitz I see Zoro doing here, which could be very devastating, and in my mind definitely comes well ahead of Purple Man's mindscrew. Even if Zero Metal doesn't cancel regeneration and Zoro can't use haki tricks and the blow isn't lethal... well, Monet shows us what happens with people who get sliced by Zoro. It ain't pretty and should give Brook and Sue space to do their own moves ahead of the competition.

Stay tuned for musings about the next fight.

[Bobisbeast]

I'm just going to start with a few scans, some in a bit of rebuttal against Mandy's post,
First, about the speed of the fusion,
The Sword itself gives fairly fast speeds , and that's amping a normal human, Nightcrawler himself has fairly fast reaction speeds, especially while teleporting (albeit no where near the speeds of many of the players here), and those are at his normal levels, before being amped by the Banshee drug. The Potara earrings further amp his abilities, as they do with all fusions. He isn't exactly a slowpoke here.

The Blood god/Purple Man is also definitely going to be a tough cookie to defeat. As the linked video shows, the regeneration of the Purple Man is pretty insane, and is speed is at least better than some fighting, and the one thing the negated this regen is obviously not owned by anyone in this fight.

The Toxin symbiote is also definitely faster than the venom one, albeit i don't have scans at the moment, and his time slowing/stopping should kick in fairly quickly, as it is entirely thought based.

and about the Muur talisman, I agree that it wasn't the smartest choice, but Aang's insanely high will, and spiritual connection, should at least allow him to have complete control of it's powers. The transformation it does might also be changing a few more people than just Panther, karnak, and even the Invisible Woman, don't exactly have Supernatural powers, or the ability to use the Force, but what exactly can't be changed by the talisman is a fairly grey area here. Aang also has higher reaction rates than at least Hydroman and Panther thanks to the Blessing.

Deadman, as you said, is Deadman, and may be taken out early in this specific fight, but if he posses anyone he can certainly do something nasty.

The real key thing here is the Dementor,
literally no one on the opposing team can detect him in any way, and the soul kiss is something that could definitely take out anyone on the opposing team, and even if that fails, the Moby Morpher is certainly a doozy, and has even proven to effect multiple beings at once, (In the episode Omi Town), and could also take almost anyone out. Even if the rest of my team is taken out, or at least regenerating for some of them, he could definitely take out the more powerful members of the opposing team, or anyone.
This might be my last post for this match, as i'm leaving for a convention for my jewish youth group until Monday, after tomorrow afternoon, but i may be able to get in one more post later today.

[KJ Stewart]

"Potential Strategy"
Week 1 Vs Randy Mandy
New Orleans

Note: This is merely an idea of what we're capable of and is not a definitive strategy.

Having the likes of Reed Richards, The Doctor and Batman on our team ensures that we are going to be a very efficient team, making shrewd decisions and second-to-none tactical choices. This is something nobody can ever really deny.

So, an idea...

PART 1
I think protection is particularly important in this arena, where the strong winds and floods are going to be highly off-putting, if not making it outright impossible for certain characters to do anything relevant due to the fact that we don't exactly have Superman on our teams - no one is going to be blitzing in this weather (wind/floods etc), put it that way. So shielding should be a priority for both teams. And, frankly, I think we win on the shielding front very, very convincingly.

Raven
Raven can utilise her natural powers (augmented by the Mutant Growth Hormone), the Psimitar and the Ring of Heart to protect the minds of her team. Therefore, any mind-attacks are made irrelevant. She also has the pheromones, the range of which should be increased by the MGH, so she should be able to manipulate her own team in that sense as well. Basically, opposition telepathy isn't working.

Xavin
Xavin (whose ability to use the Fantastic Four's powers to their full potential should be maximised by the vast intelligence increase granted by the Encephala Helmet) can create incredibly strong shields to protect our team physically. Sue Storm level shields in this relatively low power tournament, backed up by other shields, will be pretty damn effective.

The Doctor
Wielding the Justice Glyph, the Doctor is autoshielded pretty heftily. And he can also backup Xavin's team-shielding by constructing a large shield of his own (given that constructs can be done in large numbers), ensuring we are protected physically from both the weather and the opposing team.

Bat-Wrecker
With the Wrecker's durability and the Batman Beyond suit (which has taken hits from animated Superman), there is simply no way to physically hurt Bruce here. And with his mind protected he is safe from telepathic attack. And with his dimension-traversing ability he cannot be successfully dimension-dumped (and, being Bruce, will rescue anyone who is). It's going to be nigh-on impossible to take him out - especially given that the Wrecker's powers in the hands of someone who is far from being the complete moron that Dirk is should be extremely formidable. He can create a forcefield as well, further protecting us from the weather and the opposition.

Madame Xanadu
Basically, the most knowledgable and powerful mage in this competition. Completely unkillable, knows more about magic than pretty much anyone else in fiction, and now wielding some seriously magical power amped by the Elder Wand. She's also protected against other people's magic by the Cloak of Levitation and the Symbol of Seven. With the Elder Wand, she could also create yet another forcefield around our team (or a ring of hellfire, which has held Dormammu in place, which will be amped by the Elder Wand).

Synch
With his ability to copy any power and use it as well as, if not better than, the original wielder of that power, Synch could put up an additional shield using any of the above character's abilities. If we're smart and use this tactic, we are going to be protected from pretty much everything they can throw at us and - perhaps more importantly - the weather.

Tempo
Tempo can counter any time-alteration, or indeed stop time quickly for our team, given that she has a minor connection to the speedforce through the Insider Suit.

Reed Richards
Reed can't contribute much to the protection of the entire team, but he is incredibly durable through his own elastic powers and now has Lightning Lad's ability to absorb energy attacks, removing his biggest (and possibly only) physical vulnerability. And with his mind protected and our ability to be rescued from dimensional dumps, he's pretty safe.

PART 2
From the protection of our shields (while also protected from mind-attacks, time manipulation, magic and dimension dumps) our team of geniuses can do all kinds of things. I won't be overly specific, as this isn't a normal strategy, but I'll give a general idea.

The Doctor's insane intelligence should allow him to create some really powerful stuff using the Justice Glyph constructs. He should be able to do things with that which no other character is capable of (bearing in mind this a man who used an iPhone to hack an alien spaceship in seconds). Bear in mind he also has a Sonic Screwdriver, for what that's worth.

Reed can advise in the creation of such constructs and can power them (if need be) with his electrical powers. We basically have the ability to create some UNBELIEVABLY powerful shit here.

The tech created by the 2 most intelligent men in the tournament could then be handed out to our entire team. Imagine that.

Batman can talk tactics. We're in a fight, we're turtling in a shield, scheming. This is Batman's forte - getting out of situations like this and formulating plans.

Tempo can amp our speed/continue to counter any time manipulation.

Raven can continue to protect our minds, making all of this possible.

Xavin can keep up the Sue-level shields and get read to go nova on someone's ass when me make our attack.

Xanadu can prep a spell, or even just burn everyone on the opposing team to death with the Darksoul Tattoo (amped by the Elder Wand) from the protection of our epic shielding. She can also brush off any attempts at attacking us with magic. The magic boss right here.

Synch can keep shielding us, and then copy whichever power he wants for when we make our attack. We could have another Wrecker on our hands if we wanted, for example.

PART 3
We attack, with the full force of the tech created from the minds of The Doctor and Reed Richards (which basically could be ANYTHING they want, created from constructs made by the Doctor).

Xanadu fires off spells amped by the Elder Wand. Soul torturing spells. Spells that can effect Dormammu which are actually amped here.

Batman, with Wrecker powers and the high-tech Beyond suit, kicks complete and utter arse.

Xavin can go nova or make himself incredibly durable/stretch for the fight, whichever he wants (either way, he's gonna be incredibly difficult to hurt).

We could potentially have 2 time manipulators on our hands if Synch wants to join in. Or Synch could become another Wrecker (another competent one at that, given his ability to master powers immediately).

We will still be safe from mind attacks thanks to Raven, still safe from dimension dumps thanks to 1 or 2 Wreckers, Xanadu can keep us safe from magic and basically bitchslap anyone magically.

More to come.

[KJ Stewart]

I was in 2 minds as to whether I should vote here, as there haven't been any other votes and there's only a couple of minutes left, but I want to get my vote in for my own team just in case any other votes come in late, and I can't only vote in that match, so winners are in bold red...

Match 1
Randy Mandy Vs KJ Stewart
Because it's my team and because there were no rebuttals against my debate post.

Match 2
Bobisbeast Vs AJ Valliant
For the simple reason that, sadly, AJ didn't write anything to counter Bob, so it would be pretty difficult to vote any other way.
Bob wrote a decent "strategy", gave a decent amount of evidence, and did a good job of countering the doubts that Mandy presented him with. I also think that having a time-manipulator, and the manner in which Bob suggested he could be used, would be very difficult for AJ's team to counter at all.

Match 3
sharkerbob Vs mailedbypostman1
First of all, kudos for debating! Second of all, this was a good close match and a hard choice to make. It seems to be essentially D-dumping Vs telepathy and I'm giving the nod to telepathy based on the fact that you don't necessarily need to be able to see your opponent to use it. Or, to put it better, I think that will be easier to do than the D-dump from the distance they are apart. And then Quibit's own team will be able to attack him, under the opposition's control.

Match 4
Stigma Rex Vs moonknight11
It's quite hard to give a valid reason here, as I don't know how the characters on these teams would behave without some form of input from both Stigma and moony, so I'm going to give it to moony based on the fact that he at least wrote something to give me an idea about what his team are capable of. I also don't think Stigma's team have anything to counter Luke's potential timestop.

Literally 2 minutes left, folks.

[Sharkerbob]

Sorry, late, I had it in my head that this didn't end until Sunday.

Match 1
KJ Stewart - As usual a solid, well thought out strat, and yeah, not seeing a rebuttal.

Match 2
Bobisbeast - Yeah, no debate on AJ's part, so... not sure how else to swing it.

Match 3
Sharkerbob - I admit this entirely hinges on whether or not Qubit can pull off the D-Dump before the other team telepaths mine. However, Qubit does have his own teleport shield to keep himself safe long enough that I think he can still pull off the D-Dump even if his own allies are turned against him. In theory, Phenix should also have psionic defenses, but I can't find any scans for this, so I guess it's academic.

Match 4
Moonknight11 - Think his team has the greater speed advantage and his telepaths can mess with the enemy team.