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  1. #76
    Member OberonOsiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
    But Steph and Cassandra have been dropped, haven't they? I pretty much forgot about Bette, since I don't read Batwoman anymore but, yeah, I'd be happy to see her gone too. Damian, on the other hand, has really grown on me.
    For a number of reasons, I only read Batwoman.(But I occasionally read INC and keep up, somewhat, with the Bat-verse, through forums like this and others.) The character of Bette could be improved, for my tastes, but ironically in both Kate and her case, they are most likely 'actual' family members, since they are either 1st or 2nd cousins to Bruce.
    "Mmmmmmm, Namor" - Celebrating Cold Water's Appreciation of All Things Namor

  2. #77
    deep green nepenthes's Avatar
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    The bigger the better. Even down to characters like Creeper, Man Bat, Jason Bard and so on, I'd love to see DC throw minor Bat family a guest app or cameo a bit more often. Go wild.

    If you want solo Batman or "classic Batman" stories then a writer can drill down to main players whenever they want, anytime, but that doesn't mean the rest cannot be out there, on the board, waiting in the wings. They're all just options.

    When it comes to Batfamily having their own titles however, the only limits should be whether a) the books will sell) and b) editorial along with writers can delineate a unique niche and/or creative ambition for each book. Batwing isn't selling and is otherwise unremarkable so it will be cancelled soon, no problem. Nightwing is doing average Nightwing numbers, as it will always do, but has no reason to exist apart from the being a book for Nightwing. Batgirl is thematically the very opposite of what DC intended when they returned Barbara to the name - dreary and depressing as hell. These are the types of things that should be addressed in a Batfamily line in terms of theme and style IMO. Otherwise you could launch a book for Batmite and it wouldn't matter as long as it either sells or has sufficient creative merit to let it slide for a while, long enough for a decent run at least, as Gotham Central and Manhunter once did.

  3. #78
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nepenthes View Post
    The bigger the better. Even down to characters like Creeper, Man Bat, Jason Bard and so on, I'd love to see DC throw minor Bat family a guest app or cameo a bit more often. Go wild.

    If you want solo Batman or "classic Batman" stories then a writer can drill down to main players whenever they want, anytime, but that doesn't mean the rest cannot be out there, on the board, waiting in the wings. They're all just options.

    When it comes to Batfamily having their own titles however, the only limits should be whether a) the books will sell) and b) editorial along with writers can delineate a unique niche and/or creative ambition for each book. Batwing isn't selling and is otherwise unremarkable so it will be cancelled soon, no problem. Nightwing is doing average Nightwing numbers, as it will always do, but has no reason to exist apart from the being a book for Nightwing. Batgirl is thematically the very opposite of what DC intended when they returned Barbara to the name - dreary and depressing as hell. These are the types of things that should be addressed in a Batfamily line in terms of theme and style IMO. Otherwise you could launch a book for Batmite and it wouldn't matter as long as it either sells or has sufficient creative merit to let it slide for a while, long enough for a decent run at least, as Gotham Central and Manhunter once did.
    I agree with everything here , but especially the bolded. It's why I really don't understand wiping out certain characters. Yeah there's the option to reintroduce them down the line, but at that point you've likely lost a good chunk of the former fanbase.

    Then there's also a risk of having to either retcon their history in, or rebooting the character completely. In nearly every case (wally is tricky) I see no reason why it wouldn't be better to briefly introduce them with a basic status quo that would allow them to be shelved or picked up later.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OberonOsiris View Post
    For a number of reasons, I only read Batwoman.(But I occasionally read INC and keep up, somewhat, with the Bat-verse, through forums like this and others.) The character of Bette could be improved, for my tastes, but ironically in both Kate and her case, they are most likely 'actual' family members, since they are either 1st or 2nd cousins to Bruce.

    This reminds me! A long time ago I started a thread asking for help in listing all the characters in Batman stories who seem to have been named in honor of "Bob Kane" -- as in, their surnames are "Kane" or something very similar.

    It turns out that "Kane" (and variations of it) have been used many times. Our list included Kathy Kane and Betty Kane from the Silver Age, plus such modern variations as "Kate and Bette, Batwoman and Flamebird," plus Cassandra Cain and her daddy, plus Kathy DuQuesne from the animated movie "Mystery of the Batwoman," plus some other very obscure comic book characters (not necessarily costumed heroes) . . . and someone even told me that there's been at least one "canonical reference" to the idea that Bruce's mother's maiden name was "Martha Kane," which I had never noticed before!

    I think that was when I finally learned about an old theory that Silver Age Batwoman might actually have been some sort of long-lost cousin of Bruce's on his mother's side of the family!
    Last edited by Lorendiac; 12-19-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  5. #80
    Member Seattle Freeze's Avatar
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    I think there are a lot of interesting Bat characters that I like to follow but they aren't compelling enough to hold my interest for a long time or the creative team loses direction.

    I think what could be interesting is have a title that covers a lot of these minor bat characters. Do a 4-6 issue arc covering one, then move on to another and another. We have an interesting and compelling idea for Batwing, then lets do another arc for him in this rotating bat title. It would be a way for bat fans to keep up with the myriad of characters and subscribe to one title instead of a short run series.
    Chill!

  6. #81
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    That comic DID used to exist back in the 1970's:



    Interesting historical fact of the time was that Batman Family was doing quite well sales wise, while Detective was floundering. So Batman Family was folded into Detective as a second story back-up to stabilize Detective's sales and it worked. Batman Family had a revolving cast but predominantly featured the Dynamite Duo (yes it's cringe worthy, but that's what they were called) of Batgirl and Robin.
    Pull list:
    Batgirl, Inhuman, Justice League Beyond 2.0, Letter 44, She-Hulk, SM/WW, Swamp Thing, Ultimate FF (lol, 5 of my 8 titles all written by SOULE)

  7. #82
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Freeze View Post
    I think there are a lot of interesting Bat characters that I like to follow but they aren't compelling enough to hold my interest for a long time or the creative team loses direction.

    I think what could be interesting is have a title that covers a lot of these minor bat characters. Do a 4-6 issue arc covering one, then move on to another and another. We have an interesting and compelling idea for Batwing, then lets do another arc for him in this rotating bat title. It would be a way for bat fans to keep up with the myriad of characters and subscribe to one title instead of a short run series.
    There used to be a comic book in the 1970s called "Batman Family." It usually contained multiple stories each focusing on a different character in a solo adventure, or sometimes a couple of them would team up for one special case at a time (Batgirl and Robin, for instance). Sadly, it only ran 20 issues (most of which I have in my collection).

    I too have sometimes thought it would be nice to see the concept revived!

  8. #83
    Member Seattle Freeze's Avatar
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    I don't like the title "Bat Family" though. It sounds too much like an ABC sitcom. Plus, I don't consider Robin a minor character.
    Chill!

  9. #84
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    That comic DID used to exist back in the 1970's:



    Interesting historical fact of the time was that Batman Family was doing quite well sales wise, while Detective was floundering. So Batman Family was folded into Detective as a second story back-up to stabilize Detective's sales and it worked. Batman Family had a revolving cast but predominantly featured the Dynamite Duo (yes it's cringe worthy, but that's what they were called) of Batgirl and Robin.
    Yep, Detective almost was cancelled until they figured basically renaming Batman Family could save the title. I used to own that exact issue. Man, I love those giant issues. New stories and reprints. Of course I didn't realize they were reprints and couldn't figure out how the timeline was actually laid out. And the artwork had definitely changed. In any case, I think there's always been an appetite for a large Batman cast of characters.

  10. #85
    Junior Member batalia's Avatar
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    I'm more or less okay with this:



    I don't mind keeping Jason and Tim for Damian's development. I like their dynamics. Big batfamily or even too many heroes in Gotham never made sense to me. All of them running around the place and Gotham is still shit place. It undermines Batman a bit. That is why I wish BOP was located in another city. Not to mention, seeing Barb in another city would be interesting. One place gets boring.

  11. #86
    Member OberonOsiris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    I think that was when I finally learned about an old theory that Silver Age Batwoman might actually have been some sort of long-lost cousin of Bruce's on his mother's side of the family!
    In current continuity, Kathy Kane, the original Batwoman, was NOT Bruce's cousin; she was his aunt by marriage. Kathy's husband was a brother of Bruce's mother, Martha Kane.
    Batwoman and Flamebird's fathers, are presumably brothers, but we don't know if they are *also* brothers to either Martha, or her brother Nathaniel, who was married to Kathy Kane, the original Batwoman.
    I'd prefer to see Kate and Bette's brothers as cousins to Martha and Nathaniel Kane; ie the poor relations, not even close to rich like the latter were.
    "Mmmmmmm, Namor" - Celebrating Cold Water's Appreciation of All Things Namor

  12. #87

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    My ideal Bat-Family is a lean, mean fighting machine:

    Batman (Bruce)
    Batgirl (Barbara)
    Robin (Tim)
    Nightwing (Dick)

    ... and Alfred of course

    I would erase Batwoman and Damien. I'd kill Jason again. And I wouldn't bring back Steph or Cassandra.
    "If God is the answer, the wrong question has been asked."

  13. #88
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    To those saying they'd rather have a small batfam, do you define batfam as character who regularly interact with Batman and his most immediate supporting characters or do you define it simply as gotham heroes who in some way shape or form are connected to Batman?

  14. #89
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrightnow View Post
    My ideal Bat-Family is a lean, mean fighting machine:

    Batman (Bruce)
    Batgirl (Barbara)
    Robin (Tim)
    Nightwing (Dick)

    ... and Alfred of course
    I like how you think
    Pull list:
    Batgirl, Inhuman, Justice League Beyond 2.0, Letter 44, She-Hulk, SM/WW, Swamp Thing, Ultimate FF (lol, 5 of my 8 titles all written by SOULE)

  15. #90
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batalia View Post
    I'm more or less okay with this:



    I don't mind keeping Jason and Tim for Damian's development. I like their dynamics. Big batfamily or even too many heroes in Gotham never made sense to me. All of them running around the place and Gotham is still shit place. It undermines Batman a bit. That is why I wish BOP was located in another city. Not to mention, seeing Barb in another city would be interesting. One place gets boring.
    I don't see the problem. Especially if you've lived in a large city. I think when you break it down by neighborhoods, it becomes manageable. You know, New York City didn't get cleaned up until the city government finally cleaned it up. I think that's Gotham's biggest problem. The city government isn't on the same page as Batman and company.

    Btw, I love that shot of the whole family there. Well, the whole family minus Alfred.

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