Should the 2nd amendment (Right to Bear Arms) be Abolished?

[dupont2005]

Since the lonnes have been pushing massive taxation of ammo and banning ammo sales, i think so. The Pro-gun folks are not the only side with nutcases as shown here on this board

Pushing for an increased tax on ammo to offset the cost to society guns create isn't being a nutcase. Arming yourself with a gatling gun because 1776 is being a nutcase.

[Walsh06]

You've accused me of "cherry-pick"-ing before, the above post is a sample of me taking numbers that weaken my point of view. I welcome anyone searching this thread. I stand by my citations and representation of statistics.

I needed a gun in my instance. We have a high rate of gun violence in this country. We have between 270-300 million guns in this country. We have a large number of armed gangs. I believe the best measure of self-defense is a gun. Is it fair to telescope the idea of gun-ownership to that of countries? Does your country have an armed established military? Of course they do. Why do they need to? Because there are bad guys/countries and your government wants to be able to defend their country. Isn't that the same argument that people who want guns to defend themselves have?

Latest stats show that 65-80% of UK's murders involved alcohol. That's strikingly similar to the percentage that the US has with firearm murders.

THere you go

[CenturianSpy]

This whole side-argument started with you trying to pass of "50 - 80% of assaults, rapes and murders can be linked to alcohol" as "80% of murders are caused by alcohol". Just give up already.

I did NOT ever use the phrase "80% of murders are caused by alcohol". In post #3614 I said this

Latest stats show that 65-80% of UK's murders involved alcohol. That's strikingly similar to the percentage that the US has with firearm murders.

, in post #3625 I said this

Trying to find original story from the Guardian, but it cited (amongst two other sources) http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/fact...coholcrime.pdf in it's article. That link shows 50%-80%.

, in post #3634

I never said that (posted my original posts to show what I said). Quoted an article from The Guardian that did (the Civitas stat was one of three the Guardian stated). But we can take the low number if you wish, that's 50%. If half of the murders in the UK could be stopped by abolishing alcohol, why don't they do that?

(another instance of me taking the number that hurts my argument, even my farcical arguments). You give up misrepresenting what I posted.

[bringthenoise]

So either you are incapable of working out the difference between "assaults, rapes and murders" and "murders" or you think everyone else is. Hint: The figure is being heavily weighted by assaults (many of them minor).

[Spike-X]

Millions of people in dozens of different countries manage to protect themselves, their families and their property without the need to own a gun.

So why the need for them in the States?

Because they have so many guns, of course! Do pay attention, old boy.

[thehod]

I guess the point that we want them and have a right to them is too complicated for you to understand.

Just as the difference between "want" and "need" seems to be something you are unable to grasp.

[thehod]

I needed a gun in my instance. We have a high rate of gun violence in this country. We have between 270-300 million guns in this country. We have a large number of armed gangs. I believe the best measure of self-defense is a gun. Is it fair to telescope the idea of gun-ownership to that of countries? Does your country have an armed established military? Of course they do. Why do they need to? Because there are bad guys/countries and your government wants to be able to defend their country. Isn't that the same argument that people who want guns to defend themselves have?

So you're admitting that the reason you need guns for self defence is because there are so many guns in your country.

Thanks for making my point for me.

[CenturianSpy]

So either you are incapable of working out the difference between "assaults, rapes and murders" and "murders" or you think everyone else is. Hint: The figure is being heavily weighted by assaults (many of them minor).

Here's another source http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/crime.pdf that shows a range of between 36%-70% of just HOMICIDES had alcohol involved. So my 50% argument seems reasonable. Even if it was just a farcicle post. Or are you incapable of saying that my stats were accurate?

[CenturianSpy]

So you're admitting that the reason you need guns for self defence is because there are so many guns in your country.

Thanks for making my point for me.

I'm admitting there are a lot of bad guys in my country. This coupled with the ability and ease of getting a firearm or knife or baseball bat makes us unsafe.

[Iangould]

I guess the point that we want them and have a right to them is too complicated for you to understand.

Define "we".

[Iangould]

I'm admitting there are a lot of bad guys in my country. This coupled with the ability and ease of getting a firearm or knife or baseball bat makes us unsafe.

Unfortunately, to the rest of us, it makes you look gutless.

[thehod]

I'm admitting there are a lot of bad guys in my country. This coupled with the ability and ease of getting a firearm or knife or baseball bat makes us unsafe.

There's a lot of bad guys in my country too.

It seems the difference between our two countries is the number of guns. Perhaps doing something about that may make you feel as safe as I do, because it is a rare occurance that I feel unsafe.

[CenturianSpy]

Unfortunately, to the rest of us, it makes you look gutless.

I'll gladly be called "gutless" and be alive today. Some would call me "lucky" others would call me "responsible".

There's a lot of bad guys in my country too.

It seems the difference between our two countries is the number of guns. Perhaps doing something about that may make you feel as safe as I do, because it is a rare occurance that I feel unsafe.

I'd rather be "unsafe" and ready than have a feeling of "safe" and be unprepared.

[mikekerrIII]

Pushing for an increased tax on ammo to offset the cost to society guns create isn't being a nutcase. Arming yourself with a gatling gun because 1776 is being a nutcase.

pUshjing for a tax to cover the cost sis not lonnie, pusd shing for punitiv e taxes to make owning and firing a firearm is loonie. What do you believe is the social finical cost of a box of 22 rounds?

[mikekerrIII]

Just as the difference between "want" and "need" seems to be something you are unable to grasp.

Want and have a right to is concept you can't seem to grasp.