View Poll Results: Should the right to bear arms be abolished

Voters
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  • Yes

    77 22.13%
  • No

    134 38.51%
  • No but Stricter laws are needed

    94 27.01%
  • maybe

    2 0.57%
  • Some weapon types should be banned

    16 4.60%
  • Certain Weapons and attachments should be banned

    25 7.18%
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  1. #3526
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenturianSpy View Post
    ]Is the Telegraph a good source? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...of-Europe.html? I'm not asking sarcastically, I honestly want to know the more trusted English news sites.

    England isn't the UK, do keep up.

  2. #3527
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenturianSpy View Post
    Off topic but...good gravy why is rape so high in Australia?
    Because it's reported more. It doesn't mean Australia is full of rapists everywhere, but that their laws and their system makes it easier for victims to come forward.

  3. #3528
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    the general social treatment of women there is not so great
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20918642

    There's dozens, if not hundreds of examples of similar cases where the victim's treatment in the US is frankly horrendous.

  4. #3529
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    The problem in England isn't the gun laws - check the figures for northern Ireland where the exact same laws are in effect. The problem in England (and Scotland) is a binge-drinking culture that leads to lots of relatively minor punch-ups on week-ends. I somehow doubt inserting large numbers of concealable firearms into that situation would result in a reduction in violence.
    We've got a massive problem with binge drinking and frankly I could fill a thread and then some with the reasons behind it, but although you're right, the main problem isn't a load of punch ups, but a range of crimes from assaults to rape. Sticking guns into an average city centre on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see total carnage.

  5. #3530
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king mob View Post
    We've got a massive problem with binge drinking and frankly I could fill a thread and then some with the reasons behind it, but although you're right, the main problem isn't a load of punch ups, but a range of crimes from assaults to rape. Sticking guns into an average city centre on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see total carnage.
    any theory as to where that comes from, or is it just tied into the social attitude?

    go out, get soused, and knock someone around
    Support your local roller derby league

  6. #3531
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slam_Bradley View Post
    I wasn't suggesting that there were going to be the requisite votes. Simply that The Bill of Rights is subject to the same procedures as the rest of the Constitution.

    I continue to find it sadly hilarious to see the machinations that people will go through over protecting the Second Amendment while not giving a tinker's damn about the rest. There are so damn many exceptions to the warrant requirement that it's rare to actually see a warrant. We all know how well the right to peaceably assemble is doing. Due Process has certainly seen better days. All that nasty hippie stuff.
    The damage to some of the others, like due process and Search are I believe one of the reasons that people are so resistance to comprise. what has happened to the forth and fifth gives credence to the idea that every thing that go away will stay gone and that the opponents will keep talking more until the right functionally becomes useless

    Many a Americans don't trust their government very much, and with pretty good reasons.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...t-tread-on-me/

    Having one of the loudest voices for gun control being a guy who wants control of the minutiae of individual choice and who thinks the fourth Amendment is toilet paper doesn't help.
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  7. #3532
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Clarkie View Post
    Of course you do , that's what Intelligent philosophical discourse is all about, duh!
    You can talk about it, but you don't experiment with making people less free in real life
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  8. #3533
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king mob View Post
    No, we have these freedoms Mike. Do I need to post this for you again?
    So there have been no convictions or arrests for hate speech?

    Brigit Bardot was charged with a crime that doesn't exist?
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  9. #3534
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    So there have been no convictions or arrests for hate speech?

    Brigit Bardot was charged with a crime that doesn't exist?
    the US didn't have internment camps?
    Support your local roller derby league

  10. #3535
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    the US didn't have internment camps?
    70 years ago, and the courts have ruled them Illegal, laws have been passed to stop them from being used again, Compensation paid and an apology given.
    Last edited by mikekerrIII; 02-02-2013 at 08:35 AM.
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  11. #3536
    Senior Member bringthenoise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    So there have been no convictions or arrests for hate speech?

    Brigit Bardot was charged with a crime that doesn't exist?
    Oh noes! We don't tolerate bigotry! That makes us so awful! Look, if you think it's so fucking important to let people run around inciting hatred (and, let's be honest here, violence) so long as they don't make a direct threat, go for it. But we've worked out the connection between "[Group X] are all subhuman vermin" and people in Group X getting attacked and killed.

  12. #3537

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    Quote Originally Posted by king mob View Post
    Actually, per head of population it's not the case and you also ignore how crimes are reported differently, what's classed as a 'violent crime' and the social mix of the UK. We're also seeing violent crime decrease much to everyone's surprise.

    Now, want to actually deal with the vast amount of people being killed because you think owning a gun is some sort of human right?
    Per capita, yes the rate of non-gun crime is higher in the UK. Note that there are standardized definitions for some crimes, and- if anything- crimes like assault and battery are pretty broadly defined here in the US. Making a threat can be assault, and touching someone against their will can result in a battery charge.

    I'm quite willing to help minimize the murder and manslaughter rate. I just don't see how taking guns from responsible, law abiding gun owners is going to solve anything. The problem is with people who break the law, not with people who follow it.

  13. #3538
    Idaho Spuds Slam_Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    The damage to some of the others, like due process and Search are I believe one of the reasons that people are so resistance to comprise. what has happened to the forth and fifth gives credence to the idea that every thing that go away will stay gone and that the opponents will keep talking more until the right functionally becomes useless.

    I disagree with this. And no I don't have anything more than observation and anecdote to back that up. But generally, note generally, I find that the vehement defenders of the Second Amendment are severe law-and-order types who have absolutely no problem with the continued degradation of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments. "Because all they're doing is protecting criminals and if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't need to worry."

  14. #3539
    Senior Member bringthenoise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    The problem is with people who break the law, not with people who follow it.
    Neither James Holmes or Adam Lanza had a criminal record before the mass shootings they perpetrated. I can't find any stats at the moment, but I would intrigued to see how many gun murders are committed by people with prior criminal histories vs those without.

  15. #3540

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    Quote Originally Posted by bringthenoise View Post
    Neither James Holmes or Adam Lanza had a criminal record before the mass shootings they perpetrated. I can't find any stats at the moment, but I would intrigued to see how many gun murders are committed by people with prior criminal histories vs those without.
    Both criminals you mention had one or more problems in their background that would disqualify them from legal gun ownership. Lanza used stolen guns because when he tried to buy one of his own, he was turned down. Holmes simply lied about his record. At that point, he'd already had a history of drug abuse and threatening behavior.

    Regarding past criminal records, the majority of violent criminals have had at least one prior conviction or arrest.
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

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