Should the 2nd amendment (Right to Bear Arms) be Abolished?

[king mob]

]Is the Telegraph a good source? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...of-Europe.html? I'm not asking sarcastically, I honestly want to know the more trusted English news sites.

England isn't the UK, do keep up.

[king mob]

Off topic but...good gravy why is rape so high in Australia?

Because it's reported more. It doesn't mean Australia is full of rapists everywhere, but that their laws and their system makes it easier for victims to come forward.

[king mob]

the general social treatment of women there is not so great

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20918642

There's dozens, if not hundreds of examples of similar cases where the victim's treatment in the US is frankly horrendous.

[king mob]

The problem in England isn't the gun laws - check the figures for northern Ireland where the exact same laws are in effect. The problem in England (and Scotland) is a binge-drinking culture that leads to lots of relatively minor punch-ups on week-ends. I somehow doubt inserting large numbers of concealable firearms into that situation would result in a reduction in violence.

We've got a massive problem with binge drinking and frankly I could fill a thread and then some with the reasons behind it, but although you're right, the main problem isn't a load of punch ups, but a range of crimes from assaults to rape. Sticking guns into an average city centre on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see total carnage.

[Vibranium]

We've got a massive problem with binge drinking and frankly I could fill a thread and then some with the reasons behind it, but although you're right, the main problem isn't a load of punch ups, but a range of crimes from assaults to rape. Sticking guns into an average city centre on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see total carnage.

any theory as to where that comes from, or is it just tied into the social attitude?

go out, get soused, and knock someone around

[mikekerrIII]

I wasn't suggesting that there were going to be the requisite votes. Simply that The Bill of Rights is subject to the same procedures as the rest of the Constitution.

I continue to find it sadly hilarious to see the machinations that people will go through over protecting the Second Amendment while not giving a tinker's damn about the rest. There are so damn many exceptions to the warrant requirement that it's rare to actually see a warrant. We all know how well the right to peaceably assemble is doing. Due Process has certainly seen better days. All that nasty hippie stuff.

The damage to some of the others, like due process and Search are I believe one of the reasons that people are so resistance to comprise. what has happened to the forth and fifth gives credence to the idea that every thing that go away will stay gone and that the opponents will keep talking more until the right functionally becomes useless

Many a Americans don't trust their government very much, and with pretty good reasons.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...t-tread-on-me/

Having one of the loudest voices for gun control being a guy who wants control of the minutiae of individual choice and who thinks the fourth Amendment is toilet paper doesn't help.

[mikekerrIII]

Of course you do , that's what Intelligent philosophical discourse is all about, duh!

You can talk about it, but you don't experiment with making people less free in real life

[mikekerrIII]

No, we have these freedoms Mike. Do I need to post this for you again?

So there have been no convictions or arrests for hate speech?

Brigit Bardot was charged with a crime that doesn't exist?

[Vibranium]

So there have been no convictions or arrests for hate speech?

Brigit Bardot was charged with a crime that doesn't exist?

the US didn't have internment camps?

[mikekerrIII]

the US didn't have internment camps?

70 years ago, and the courts have ruled them Illegal, laws have been passed to stop them from being used again, Compensation paid and an apology given.

[bringthenoise]

So there have been no convictions or arrests for hate speech?

Brigit Bardot was charged with a crime that doesn't exist?

Oh noes! We don't tolerate bigotry! That makes us so awful! Look, if you think it's so fucking important to let people run around inciting hatred (and, let's be honest here, violence) so long as they don't make a direct threat, go for it. But we've worked out the connection between "[Group X] are all subhuman vermin" and people in Group X getting attacked and killed.

[Valerie]

Actually, per head of population it's not the case and you also ignore how crimes are reported differently, what's classed as a 'violent crime' and the social mix of the UK. We're also seeing violent crime decrease much to everyone's surprise.

Now, want to actually deal with the vast amount of people being killed because you think owning a gun is some sort of human right?

Per capita, yes the rate of non-gun crime is higher in the UK. Note that there are standardized definitions for some crimes, and- if anything- crimes like assault and battery are pretty broadly defined here in the US. Making a threat can be assault, and touching someone against their will can result in a battery charge.

I'm quite willing to help minimize the murder and manslaughter rate. I just don't see how taking guns from responsible, law abiding gun owners is going to solve anything. The problem is with people who break the law, not with people who follow it.

[Slam_Bradley]

The damage to some of the others, like due process and Search are I believe one of the reasons that people are so resistance to comprise. what has happened to the forth and fifth gives credence to the idea that every thing that go away will stay gone and that the opponents will keep talking more until the right functionally becomes useless.

I disagree with this. And no I don't have anything more than observation and anecdote to back that up. But generally, note generally, I find that the vehement defenders of the Second Amendment are severe law-and-order types who have absolutely no problem with the continued degradation of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments. "Because all they're doing is protecting criminals and if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't need to worry."

[bringthenoise]

The problem is with people who break the law, not with people who follow it.

Neither James Holmes or Adam Lanza had a criminal record before the mass shootings they perpetrated. I can't find any stats at the moment, but I would intrigued to see how many gun murders are committed by people with prior criminal histories vs those without.

[Valerie]

Neither James Holmes or Adam Lanza had a criminal record before the mass shootings they perpetrated. I can't find any stats at the moment, but I would intrigued to see how many gun murders are committed by people with prior criminal histories vs those without.

Both criminals you mention had one or more problems in their background that would disqualify them from legal gun ownership. Lanza used stolen guns because when he tried to buy one of his own, he was turned down. Holmes simply lied about his record. At that point, he'd already had a history of drug abuse and threatening behavior.

Regarding past criminal records, the majority of violent criminals have had at least one prior conviction or arrest.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt