Should the 2nd amendment (Right to Bear Arms) be Abolished?

[Slam_Bradley]

Since it was added before it could be ratified, not really. It was part of the Constitution when it went into effect

Nope. The Constitution went in to effect March 4, 1789. The Bill of rights went in to effect as Amndments Dec. 15, 1791.

[Vibranium]

Nope. The Constitution went in to effect March 4, 1789. The Bill of rights went in to effect as Amndments Dec. 15, 1791.

RIGHTS...not amendments, not suggestions or guidelines

but rights

[Slam_Bradley]

RIGHTS...not amendments, not suggestions or guidelines

but rights

It's the collective name of the first ten amendments. Hence Second Amendment. They are not immutable. They can be changed just as the 18th Amendment was repealed.

[Vibranium]

It's the collective name of the first ten amendments. Hence Second Amendment. They are not immutable. They can be changed just as the 18th Amendment was repealed.

so some rights are "immutable" and some are not?

life, liberty, and all that....just suggestions?

let's just put the darkies back into the back the bus while we're at it

[Iangould]

They actually had a document that opened and showed a breakdown separating rape and sexual assault. Australia was still at least twice as high...

If you're referring to this: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...l_violence.xls

The 18,000 rapes 91/100,000 figure for 2003 is the same as the statistic for sexual assault provided by the ABS.

If you look at the survey-based "sexual violence" figures for the past few years which are actually based on a standard methodology, the Australian figure is around 1/3 of that for the UK.

Edited to add: you'll note too that the sexual violence sheet doesn't have an entry for the US because, again, the US national criem statistics only cover "rape" and not the broader category.

[Slam_Bradley]

so some rights are "immutable" and some are not?

life, liberty, and all that....just suggestions?

let's just put the darkies back into the back the bus while we're at it

:

You do realize that any Amendment can theoretically be repealed, don't you?

[Vibranium]

You do realize that any Amendment can theoretically be repealed, don't you?

Yes I am aware....but it takes a lot of doing, quite a lot actually

[CenturianSpy]

If you're referring to this: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...l_violence.xls

The 18,000 rapes 91/100,000 figure for 2003 is the same as the statistic for sexual assault provided by the ABS.

If you look at the survey-based "sexual violence" figures for the past few years which are actually based on a standard methodology, the Australian figure is around 1/3 of that for the UK.

Edited to add: you'll note too that the sexual violence sheet doesn't have an entry for the US because, again, the US national criem statistics only cover "rape" and not the broader category.

Interesting. They define rape at the top of the document (number 2 of 3) then caveat it with (paraphrased) "other countries have different definitions of rape" at the bottom. I'm glad to hear it was an "accounting" error.

[Jeff Brady]

Yes I am aware....but it takes a lot of doing, quite a lot actually

I can't make the text three feet tall, but a banner should be going across your screen that says "NO SHIT, SHERLOCK. THAT'S WHAT MANY PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN."

[Iangould]

While I'm on the topic, check out the assault data sheet.

Australia has a 2003 assault rate of 799/100,000 - based on that broader definition. for the three most recent years where stats are based on the standardized survey, the figures are just over 300/100,000. so either there's been a massive fall in the violent crime rate in Australia or the 2003 figure is misleading because it includes simple assault.

For the most recent year, stats for assault from the standardized survey are US 250; Australia 323 England 663.

The problem in England isn't the gun laws - check the figures for northern Ireland where the exact same laws are in effect. The problem in England (and Scotland) is a binge-drinking culture that leads to lots of relatively minor punch-ups on week-ends. I somehow doubt inserting large numbers of concealable firearms into that situation would result in a reduction in violence.

[Vibranium]

I can't make the text three feet tall, but a banner should be going across your screen that says "NO SHIT, SHERLOCK. THAT'S WHAT MANY PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN."

we've had some decent suggestions about changing legislation, some misguided, some unreasonable, but all well meaning

[dupont2005]

Interesting. They define rape at the top of the document (number 2 of 3) then caveat it with (paraphrased) "other countries have different definitions of rape" at the bottom. I'm glad to hear it was an "accounting" error.

Other countries do have different definitions of rape. Until recently a man forcing his wife to have sex wasn't legally rape in the US. And just recently, a California court decided that circumstances that would be considered rape if they happened to a married woman are not rape when they happen to an unmarried woman. Lets not automatically assume we have the definitive definition of rape in the states. I haven't looked into it, but for all I know Australia could have a much better handle on things in that area.

[Puppetmaker Grae]

.

By the way, how come most crime rates for the UK leave out Scotland and Northern Ireland?

Scotland retained its own legal system after union with England, therefore the definitions of some crimes are not identical to the rest of the UK and are counted separately. Likewise, Northern Ireland has its own parliament, and for the most part governs itself, leading to its own set of crime stats.

[Captain Clarkie]

we've had some decent suggestions about changing legislation, some misguided, some unreasonable, but all well meaning

So here's an idea, rather than instantly dismiss everything in theory, why not put something into practice.

[Captain Clarkie]

The problem in England (and Scotland) is a binge-drinking culture that leads to lots of relatively minor punch-ups on week-ends.

What you saying, ffffgggg, balls, big bag of rabbits, Benjamen Britten, gnt, I'LLFIGHt uuuu! MMMOOOOO!