View Poll Results: Should the right to bear arms be abolished

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  • Yes

    77 22.06%
  • No

    134 38.40%
  • No but Stricter laws are needed

    95 27.22%
  • maybe

    2 0.57%
  • Some weapon types should be banned

    16 4.58%
  • Certain Weapons and attachments should be banned

    25 7.16%
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  1. #3481
    Idaho Spuds Slam_Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Since it was added before it could be ratified, not really. It was part of the Constitution when it went into effect
    Nope. The Constitution went in to effect March 4, 1789. The Bill of rights went in to effect as Amndments Dec. 15, 1791.

  2. #3482
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slam_Bradley View Post
    Nope. The Constitution went in to effect March 4, 1789. The Bill of rights went in to effect as Amndments Dec. 15, 1791.
    RIGHTS...not amendments, not suggestions or guidelines

    but rights
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  3. #3483
    Idaho Spuds Slam_Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    RIGHTS...not amendments, not suggestions or guidelines

    but rights
    It's the collective name of the first ten amendments. Hence Second Amendment. They are not immutable. They can be changed just as the 18th Amendment was repealed.

  4. #3484
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slam_Bradley View Post
    It's the collective name of the first ten amendments. Hence Second Amendment. They are not immutable. They can be changed just as the 18th Amendment was repealed.
    so some rights are "immutable" and some are not?

    life, liberty, and all that....just suggestions?

    let's just put the darkies back into the back the bus while we're at it

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  5. #3485

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenturianSpy View Post
    They actually had a document that opened and showed a breakdown separating rape and sexual assault. Australia was still at least twice as high...
    If you're referring to this: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...l_violence.xls

    The 18,000 rapes 91/100,000 figure for 2003 is the same as the statistic for sexual assault provided by the ABS.

    If you look at the survey-based "sexual violence" figures for the past few years which are actually based on a standard methodology, the Australian figure is around 1/3 of that for the UK.

    Edited to add: you'll note too that the sexual violence sheet doesn't have an entry for the US because, again, the US national criem statistics only cover "rape" and not the broader category.
    Last edited by Iangould; 02-01-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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  6. #3486
    Idaho Spuds Slam_Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    so some rights are "immutable" and some are not?

    life, liberty, and all that....just suggestions?

    let's just put the darkies back into the back the bus while we're at it

    :
    You do realize that any Amendment can theoretically be repealed, don't you?

  7. #3487
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slam_Bradley View Post
    You do realize that any Amendment can theoretically be repealed, don't you?
    Yes I am aware....but it takes a lot of doing, quite a lot actually
    Last edited by Vibranium; 02-01-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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  8. #3488
    Bad Mama-Jama CenturianSpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    If you're referring to this: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...l_violence.xls

    The 18,000 rapes 91/100,000 figure for 2003 is the same as the statistic for sexual assault provided by the ABS.

    If you look at the survey-based "sexual violence" figures for the past few years which are actually based on a standard methodology, the Australian figure is around 1/3 of that for the UK.

    Edited to add: you'll note too that the sexual violence sheet doesn't have an entry for the US because, again, the US national criem statistics only cover "rape" and not the broader category.
    Interesting. They define rape at the top of the document (number 2 of 3) then caveat it with (paraphrased) "other countries have different definitions of rape" at the bottom. I'm glad to hear it was an "accounting" error.
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  9. #3489
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    Yes I am aware....but it takes a lot of doing, quite a lot actually
    I can't make the text three feet tall, but a banner should be going across your screen that says "NO SHIT, SHERLOCK. THAT'S WHAT MANY PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN."
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  10. #3490

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    While I'm on the topic, check out the assault data sheet.

    Australia has a 2003 assault rate of 799/100,000 - based on that broader definition. for the three most recent years where stats are based on the standardized survey, the figures are just over 300/100,000. so either there's been a massive fall in the violent crime rate in Australia or the 2003 figure is misleading because it includes simple assault.

    For the most recent year, stats for assault from the standardized survey are US 250; Australia 323 England 663.

    The problem in England isn't the gun laws - check the figures for northern Ireland where the exact same laws are in effect. The problem in England (and Scotland) is a binge-drinking culture that leads to lots of relatively minor punch-ups on week-ends. I somehow doubt inserting large numbers of concealable firearms into that situation would result in a reduction in violence.
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  11. #3491
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    I can't make the text three feet tall, but a banner should be going across your screen that says "NO SHIT, SHERLOCK. THAT'S WHAT MANY PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN."
    we've had some decent suggestions about changing legislation, some misguided, some unreasonable, but all well meaning
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  12. #3492
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenturianSpy View Post
    Interesting. They define rape at the top of the document (number 2 of 3) then caveat it with (paraphrased) "other countries have different definitions of rape" at the bottom. I'm glad to hear it was an "accounting" error.
    Other countries do have different definitions of rape. Until recently a man forcing his wife to have sex wasn't legally rape in the US. And just recently, a California court decided that circumstances that would be considered rape if they happened to a married woman are not rape when they happen to an unmarried woman. Lets not automatically assume we have the definitive definition of rape in the states. I haven't looked into it, but for all I know Australia could have a much better handle on things in that area.
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  13. #3493
    Member Puppetmaker Grae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    .

    By the way, how come most crime rates for the UK leave out Scotland and Northern Ireland?
    Scotland retained its own legal system after union with England, therefore the definitions of some crimes are not identical to the rest of the UK and are counted separately. Likewise, Northern Ireland has its own parliament, and for the most part governs itself, leading to its own set of crime stats.

  14. #3494
    Wait...I know you. Captain Clarkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    we've had some decent suggestions about changing legislation, some misguided, some unreasonable, but all well meaning
    So here's an idea, rather than instantly dismiss everything in theory, why not put something into practice.
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  15. #3495
    Wait...I know you. Captain Clarkie's Avatar
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    The problem in England (and Scotland) is a binge-drinking culture that leads to lots of relatively minor punch-ups on week-ends.
    What you saying, ffffgggg, balls, big bag of rabbits, Benjamen Britten, gnt, I'LLFIGHt uuuu! MMMOOOOO!
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