View Poll Results: Should the right to bear arms be abolished

Voters
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  • Yes

    76 22.03%
  • No

    133 38.55%
  • No but Stricter laws are needed

    93 26.96%
  • maybe

    2 0.58%
  • Some weapon types should be banned

    16 4.64%
  • Certain Weapons and attachments should be banned

    25 7.25%
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  1. #1336
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    Like Kill Lists.

  2. #1337
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Clarkie View Post
    It sometimes seems like folks in the US equate owning a handgun with owning the Ultimate Nullifier.
    no one can own Chuck Norris.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  3. #1338
    Elder Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    People wouldn't be fearful of their countrymen or government if there weren't an extremely good reason for it.
    There really isn't, and if there genuinely was then owning a gun wouldn't help you out all that much.

  4. #1339
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    There really isn't, and if there genuinely was then owning a gun wouldn't help you out all that much.
    Well, there is a good reason to be fearful of his countrymen: a not negligible percentage of them seem to be madmen with guns. But as you say, getting a gun yourself doesn't really help with that.
    Last edited by carabas; 12-31-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  5. #1340

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    People wouldn't be fearful of their countrymen or government if there weren't an extremely good reason for it.
    Yeah, people are never afraid of things for irrational reasons.

    Like, I'm sure the Tea Party wouldn't be terrified that Obama was plotting to steal their gun so whites would be unable to defend themselves during the coming race war if there wasn't some rational, factual basis for it.
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  6. #1341
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    Yeah, people are never afraid of things for irrational reasons.

    Like, I'm sure the Tea Party wouldn't be terrified that Obama was plotting to steal their gun so whites would be unable to defend themselves during the coming race war if there wasn't some rational, factual basis for it.
    Lol so true
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  7. #1342

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    Quote Originally Posted by king mob View Post
    I've yet to see one gun supporter actually consider the full implications of a better mental healthcare system in the US would be a fully socialised system of healthcare like the NHS, so you either support a system where everyone gets a good standard of healthcare, and you properly invest in care, you you pay vague lip service to an idea to throw people off the basic idea of reducing weapons in your society.


    It's not 'evil'. That's spurious black and white thinking.



    This isn't about violent crime as you mean it, but making sure you're not burying children again because people like you have no intention of dealing with the results of that.



    Really?


    We've not had guns in centuries. Do you have any idea how crime in reported in all areas of the UK or what is classified now as a violent crime? And oh, how many deaths by firearm has the UK had compared to the US by percentage of population?
    .
    As a health care provider, I'm not confident that socialized health care means better health care. I know people from the UK who've had to wait and fight years for surgeries they've needed. Better health care means health care available when people need it, with minimal hassle.

    As for evil, what else do you call it when someone of sound mind decides to murder, steal, or rape? And what do you call it when you interfere with others' ability to defend themselves against such crimes? This is about violent crime, and it's easier to arm and train a school administrator or provide sufficient police protection to schools than it is to pass a bunch of laws intent on disarming people who have no regard for the law.

    Of course the UK has a lower rate of firearms death, but a higher rate of murders committed without firearms. Or or murders by stabbing or strangulation somehow not as bad as murders by firearms?
    Last edited by Valerie; 12-31-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  8. #1343
    Professional Scalliwag thehod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    As a health care provider, I'm not confident that socialized health care means better health care. I know people from the UK who've had to wait and fight years for surgeries they've needed. Better health care means health care available when people need it, with minimal hassle.

    As for evil, what else do you call it when someone of sound mind decides to murder, steal, or rape? And what do you call it when you interfere with others' ability to defend themselves against such crimes? This is about violent crime, and it's easier to arm and train a school administrator or provide sufficient police protection to schools than it is to pass a bunch of laws intent on disarming people who have no regard for the law.

    Of course the UK has a lower rate of firearms death, but a higher rate of murders committed without firearms. Or or murders by stabbing or strangulation somehow not as bad as murders by firearms?
    Missing the point in a spectacular fashion.

    This isn't about solving violent crime, but about reducing the instances and magnitude of spree killings, which almost universally involve firearms, and are beginning to happen in the US with alarming regularity. Mentioning knife crime, or murder rates is an attempt to obfuscate the debate in to subjects that whilst linked, are actually not what anyone has been talking about.

    The point is that gun control, it is suggested, would reduce the severity and the regularity of spree killings, and as a by product would also put a dent in the number of murders committed with firearms, not that gun control would magically remove violent death from society. But it would reduce it.

    And that seems to be the main thrust of the argument from the pro-gun crowd, that the solution offered isn't perfect so therefore shouldn't be followed.

    I'll ignore the comments of healthcare to stop any thread drift, but remind me to tell you about my five year old son and his experiences with socialised healthcare sometime, and you'll understand why, on this subject, you're talking out of your ass.
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  9. #1344
    Too late Nick Soapdish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    As a health care provider, I'm not confident that socialized health care means better health care. I know people from the UK who've had to wait and fight years for surgeries they've needed. Better health care means health care available when people need it, with minimal hassle.
    I know people in the US with what are supposed to be good insurance plans that have the same problem. Socialized medicine doesn't mean that everybody gets unlimited free health care. There will have to be some level of rationing - which of course means death panels.

    Sorry, hod.

  10. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    Yeah, people are never afraid of things for irrational reasons.

    Like, I'm sure the Tea Party wouldn't be terrified that Obama was plotting to steal their gun so whites would be unable to defend themselves during the coming race war if there wasn't some rational, factual basis for it.
    I am not sure about race war, but under certain circumstances he would have no problem becoming a dictator.

  11. #1346

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    I am not sure about race war, but under certain circumstances he would have no problem becoming a dictator.
    Can you actually create a rational thesis to support that claim?
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  12. #1347
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    bbbbbbbbbbbbbb

  13. #1348

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    In other words, "No".
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  14. #1349
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    He is a machiavellian and almost everything he does seems to come out of the Bzerezinski playbook.

  15. #1350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    He is a machiavellian and almost everything he does seems to come out of the Bzerezinski playbook.
    And I hear he breaks his eggs at the big end.
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