View Poll Results: Should the right to bear arms be abolished

Voters
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  • Yes

    76 22.03%
  • No

    133 38.55%
  • No but Stricter laws are needed

    93 26.96%
  • maybe

    2 0.58%
  • Some weapon types should be banned

    16 4.64%
  • Certain Weapons and attachments should be banned

    25 7.25%
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  1. #1186
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snarkbunny View Post
    We don't have the same sort of seemingly adversarial relationship with our governments and politicians that you Americans do. That is also part of our national mythos.

    Kees, what Puma described in a pretty common scenario in rural North America, and it is part of why gun ownership is higher in rural areas in both Canada and the US.
    No, you don't...and other countries that might come close are usually stifled by the government

    or you get Libya and Egypt and riots in the streets

    we don't trust our government, never have, most likely never will and have not been given any good reason to
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  2. #1187
    ... snarkbunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post

    we don't trust our government, never have, most likely never will and have not been given any good reason to
    Oh you have been given good reasons over the years, from the abolishment of slavery to labour laws to your glorious national parks to civil rights to the centre for disease control, the national highway system, the FDA, etc. But sometimes I think Americans believe that the government does good in spite of itself.

    Truthfully, it is one of those American "things", that I accept exists to some degree but I don't really get nor do I agree with.

  3. #1188
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snarkbunny View Post
    Oh you have been given good reasons over the years, from the abolishment of slavery to labour laws to your glorious national parks to civil rights to the centre for disease control, the national highway system, the FDA, etc. But sometimes I think Americans believe that the government does good in spite of itself.

    Truthfully, it is one of those American "things", that I accept exists to some degree but I don't really get nor do I agree with.
    things like abolishment of slavery and civil rights had to be legislated, it just didn't occur to people that you shouldn't treat people that way (but that is not a solely American problem)

    the FDA is a political entity that solely exists to keep corporations profitable, basically gives the rubber stamp to most anything with enough money behind it


    and I can laundry list things too in which our government has really screwed the pooch

    - Iran Contra
    - Watergate
    - wasting money investigating steroids in sports

    just to name a few
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  4. #1189
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    FDA actually does a good job regulating at least compared to its fellow agencies.
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  5. #1190
    CotM Member Puma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    things like abolishment of slavery and civil rights had to be legislated, it just didn't occur to people that you shouldn't treat people that way (but that is not a solely American problem)
    Legislation that came about after regular citizens started to say you shouldn't treat people that way, it was not top down legislation.
    the FDA is a political entity that solely exists to keep corporations profitable, basically gives the rubber stamp to most anything with enough money behind it
    basically

    and I can laundry list things too in which our government has really screwed the pooch

    - Iran Contra
    - Watergate
    - wasting money investigating steroids in sports

    just to name a few
    yet you missed the elephant in the room when it comes to many don't trust the govt. The US came about because of perceived abuse by the British govt. That mistrust has colored US citizens' views of govt. from the start, we are taught in primary school that we rebelled because the British govt. was corrupt and did not respect the rights of man; this distrust was so great that the very framework of US govt. is a series of checks and balances to keep the govt. in check. The Bill of Rights is a laundry list of what the colonials were rebelling against. Aside from the 2nd the Amendments are limits against govt. tyranny.
    What have I always believed? That, on the whole, and by and large, if a person lived properly, not according to what any priests said, but according to what seemed decent and honest inside, then it would, at the end, more or less, turn out ok.

    "In 1996, I was 36. And you're still a frothing moonbat." ~Paradox

  6. #1191

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehod View Post
    You say kicked aside, others say answered perfectly adequately.

    But lets go through them one by one, shall we. Responding to the points Valerie raised that you bolded.

    First of all, it's not all that easy for just anyone to purchase a firearm.
    Its still easier than it should be, and regardless of how easy or difficult it was, the shooter in this instance stole his mothers weapons. So just making it difficult to buy guns in the first place is not a complete blocker on these things happening.

    Anyone who's been committed or who has a history of suicidal or homicidal ideation can be barred from owning firearms. Thirdly, convicted felons and even people convicted of some misdemeanors are not allowed to purchase firearms.
    Once again, purchasing guns is not the sole issue here.

    the police aren't everywhere, they can't reasonably be expected to be everywhere,
    And? This situation is no different in every other country, yet few see the level of gun violence and gun ownership that the States has, so this clearly isn't the problem or even the issue.

    I have much more to fear from inattentive drivers than I do from gun owners.
    Yes you do.
    Is that any reason NOT to impose some level of gun control. And doing so will save lives, so why not do it?
    You are missing a couple of points I made. I live in a permissive open carry state with some of most lax gun laws in the country, and it's still difficult to legally purchase a firearm. Yet the state I live in enjoys a low per capita crime rate compared to states with tougher firearm regulations. Colorado, Oregon, and Connecticut all have tougher gun regulations, and that didn't stop the mass shootings there.

    Yes, purchasing firearms is not the sole issue here, but how's another law going to prevent another Sandy Hook shooting? The firearms used there were stolen, and it's already illegal all over the country to steal firearms. It's even illegal to possess or use firearms you don't own without written permission or direct supervision of the owner.

    My point is that we already have some pretty strict gun control laws in affect. Some work better than others.Some are just common sense. I won't go hunting or plinking, and I won't even carry my pistol when I'm still recovering from the car crash I was in last week and am still taking pain meds. Not only is that against the law, but I don't want to shoot when I can't trust my aim. It's my responsibility to only carry or use my firearms when my head is clear. On the other hand, the assault gun ban we already had that expired also had no affect on the nation's crime rate. In fact, the Columbine High School shooting took place when the assault gun ban was in affect.

    Removing guns from the hands of legal, responsible owners is essentially punishing millions of people for crimes they did not commit. Any measure that leads to confiscating guns from responsible, legal gun owners is inherently unjust.
    Last edited by Valerie; 12-29-2012 at 11:11 AM.

  7. #1192
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    FDA actually does a good job regulating at least compared to its fellow agencies.
    shows how low the bar is

    but that is a conversation for another thread

    the FCC is damn near useless, the EPA is just NOW getting their shit together
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  8. #1193
    Junior Member Melab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snarkbunny View Post
    Oh you have been given good reasons over the years, from the abolishment of slavery to labour laws to your glorious national parks to civil rights to the centre for disease control, the national highway system, the FDA, etc. But sometimes I think Americans believe that the government does good in spite of itself.

    Truthfully, it is one of those American "things", that I accept exists to some degree but I don't really get nor do I agree with.
    I do not trust—a better word may be appreciate—my government because of:
    • The USA PATRIOT Act, also known as the most ironically titled piece of legsilation to ever come out of Congress in my near nineteen years of life.
    • The National Security Agency's wiretap programs.
    • Guantanamo Bay.
    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!"
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  9. #1194
    Pickled by life o1pickleboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma View Post
    yet you missed the elephant in the room when it comes to many don't trust the govt. The US came about because of perceived abuse by the British govt. That mistrust has colored US citizens' views of govt. from the start, we are taught in primary school that we rebelled because the British govt. was corrupt and did not respect the rights of man; this distrust was so great that the very framework of US govt. is a series of checks and balances to keep the govt. in check. The Bill of Rights is a laundry list of what the colonials were rebelling against. Aside from the 2nd the Amendments are limits against govt. tyranny.
    Another point is many immigrated here to find a better life because they didn't thrive in their old country. Being outcasts from one government doesn't make people embrace a new one, it make them embrace a government that is anti government. Being descendants of those immigrants we have anti government feeling ingrained into our family values.
    I'm not liberal, liberals have beliefs. I'm a democrat, the only belief I have is that republicans are wrong.

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  10. #1195
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Chris Rock said it best

    the United States is like the uncle that paid your way through college, but sexually molested you as a child

    I appreciate the things my government has done, but it has also done some really horrible shit in the name of the "greater good"
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  11. #1196
    CotM Member Puma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by o1pickleboy View Post
    Another point is many immigrated here to find a better life because they didn't thrive in their old country. Being outcasts from one government doesn't make people embrace a new one, it make them embrace a government that is anti government. Being descendants of those immigrants we have anti government feeling ingrained into our family values.
    Good point pickle.
    What have I always believed? That, on the whole, and by and large, if a person lived properly, not according to what any priests said, but according to what seemed decent and honest inside, then it would, at the end, more or less, turn out ok.

    "In 1996, I was 36. And you're still a frothing moonbat." ~Paradox

  12. #1197
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by o1pickleboy View Post
    Another point is many immigrated here to find a better life because they didn't thrive in their old country. Being outcasts from one government doesn't make people embrace a new one, it make them embrace a government that is anti government. Being descendants of those immigrants we have anti government feeling ingrained into our family values.
    great point...and while I am not defending ones right to own a grenade launcher, I hope some of our CBR friends from outside of the US can understand where the mindset and culture comes from as it relates to firearms
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  13. #1198
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    Chris Rock said it best

    the United States is like the uncle that paid your way through college, but sexually molested you as a child

    I appreciate the things my government has done, but it has also done some really horrible shit in the name of the "greater good"

    Interesting although it never stops molesting u and others unless your rich of course.
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  14. #1199
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    You do realise the Irish government has come from freeing ourselves from english rule too and the government has been very questionable for years now. Yet we dont have any spree shooters running around with guns.
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  15. #1200
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsh06 View Post
    You do realise the Irish government has come from freeing ourselves from english rule too and the government has been very questionable for years now. Yet we dont have any spree shooters running around with guns.
    a chunk of your nation is still under English dominion, you left the job half done
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