Should the 2nd amendment (Right to Bear Arms) be Abolished?

[mikekerrIII]

That is not something that can realistically be done within he lifetime of anyone here, but, from a high level you understand, it can be possible.

From a legislation basis, you start by restricting the guns by capability. Removing those that hold large numbers of rounds, and with large calibers.
From this point you also make it more difficult to purchase guns. Tests, background checks worth a damn, registration, and licensing that requires regular renewal. Once that becomes the norm and culturally acceptable, you reduce again and then again.

But you also need to change the culture of fear that pervades through the states. Fear of government, fear of outsiders, fear of authority, fear people by and large. The need to stockpile weapons and food because of some mythical collapse of society that's never going to happen.

This means media playing its part, government and society learning to trust people as a default rather than fearing them.

Education. What guns do to a human body. What it means to fire one. Start making it culturally unacceptable to be around guns in certain environments such as schools or home life.


People can (and will) knock holes in this sort of solution, and so they should, but you guys put men on the moon. With willing, thought and time you could change your countries culture within a century so that the seduction the gun has on you is removed.

But only if you want it to.

The problem is that when your long term goals are so transparent, people who don't agree will will fight you very step of the way making anything like sensible gun control difficult. Gun control advocates have been arguing that the slippery slope argument against gun control is invalid, but your post shows it in action. You provide great justification for a opposing any gun control because it is only a first step towards something 90% of Americans thing is an undesirable goal.

Advocating political propaganda from the media and the schools is not likely to win any friends either

[mikekerrIII]

I know that goes on in some places and can be a bad issue but I think for the most part they care and do a good job, yes.

In Some cases? I guess Bloomberg's NYPD, racial profiling by policy is a aberration?

[thehod]

The problem is that when your long term goals are so transparent, people who don't agree will will fight you very step of the way making anything like sensible gun control difficult. Gun control advocates have been arguing that the slippery slope argument against gun control is invalid, but your post shows it in action. You provide great justification for a opposing any gun control because it is only a first step towards something 90% of Americans thing is an undesirable goal.

Advocating political propaganda from the media and the schools is not likely to win any friends either

Hence why there has to be a collective will to make it happen.

Put it this way, where were smokers 50 years ago, and where are they now?

[Michael P]

Don't we already have schools with metal detectors and cops walking the halls? How are they doing? Do the kids there feel safe?

[Kurosawa]

In Some cases? I guess Bloomberg's NYPD, racial profiling by policy is a aberration?

I said some places, not cases. Regardless, I don't see having police around schools as a bad thing overall. I think like anything else it would be in how it's done.

[kmeyers]

So far the folks making that connection publicly have been on the Left, MSNBC and axelrod have both done so today.

There are plenty of people on both sides blaming all kinds of things.

And the tea partiers are blaming teachers, unions, and sex now too apparently...
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...nions-and-sex/

[mikekerrIII]

Hence why there has to be a collective will to make it happen.

Put it this way, where were smokers 50 years ago, and where are they now?

In the US there is no collective will to make what most of us think is an underible goal happen.

Your methods proposed top build that will are obscene in the extreme

[mikekerrIII]

There are plenty of people on both sides blaming all kinds of things.

And the tea partiers are blaming teachers, unions, and sex now too apparently...
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...nions-and-sex/

Everyone goes after their preferred targets, right and left

[thehod]

In the US there is no collective will to make what most of us think is an underible goal happen.

Your methods proposed top build that will are obscene in the extreme

Are the any more obscene than pulling dead kids out of schools?

Your solution is what Mike, more of the same?

[Nick Soapdish]

The problem is that when your long term goals are so transparent, people who don't agree will will fight you very step of the way making anything like sensible gun control difficult. Gun control advocates have been arguing that the slippery slope argument against gun control is invalid, but your post shows it in action. You provide great justification for a opposing any gun control because it is only a first step towards something 90% of Americans thing is an undesirable goal.

Advocating political propaganda from the media and the schools is not likely to win any friends either

It's still paranoia and fearmongering because they make that argument any time that any measure of gun control comes up - or opposition to expanded gun rights comes up - even though it's only a tiny minority of Americans that have any interest in taking that position.

And we're already advocating political propaganda from the media and ... well, not so much schools. Except on this issue, the propaganda from the media is overwhelmingly skewed towards how our gun rights are under attack and that guns are cool. However, I don't think that there is much potential for "counter" propaganda there because it's likely to come off as preachy and that's one thing that liberals are definitely good at.

[Nick Soapdish]

Also, what I'd love to see is examples of reasonable gun control described by Second Amendment stalwarts. I easily could've missed them here and elsewhere, but all I've seen is complaints that they're completely non-sensical or NRA supporters advocating those same completely non-sensical regulations.

[Kyer]

1. Unlike certain politicians, I couldn't give 3/4ths of a rat's rear end what the rest of the world thinks of America. What matters is what is right and not what is "socially accepted by the majority." At one time the whole world thought that slavery was just fine and dandy. The whole world back then was wrong. In certain parts of the world there are places where the majority think its perfectly ok to maim women. That makes it right? So, no, don't rightly give a hoot what Europe or Asia thinks of The United States. Personally, I think they are a bit touched in the head for wanting a government so powerful that it rules most every aspect of their lives (and money, and choices.)

This is not to say that I despise other countries. Most of my music dvds and home decor is from other countries fine and folk art. Currently, all my favorite TV shows are British. I love different cultures...just not all aspects of them.

2. I don't own or want a gun myself, but am very glad my uncle did because if he hadn't had a gun he would have died from a rattlesnake bite. If not that then the rabid raccoon that found its way into his backyard. By the way, that was late 1900's before cell phones and he wasn't a 'cowboy' nor was he near a hospital. Right now there is a squirrel in our neighborhood that is quite canny and refuses to be caught. My sister lives in dread that it will one day come down with rabies and wants some form of protection. I don't know what to tell her, but at least right now she at least has the option of purchasing a small handgun. If she does, I'm going to tell her to go get trained on how to use it.

3. We live in a border state of the U.S. Over the past decade people have been robbed left and right by trespassers. If not robbed we get to find human waste left out near the house (always fun, that.) We stupidly helped an illegal once only to have the ingrate steal from us on her way back south.

Police are great, but are seriously outgunned when drug gangs decide they want something. The state? It's facing bankruptcy and is considering cutting the number of police and firemen. The Feds? Hahahahaha....Those self-righteous bozos tell us what we can't do to defend ourselves as U.S. citizens against trespassers proven malicious while they don't do anything like, say, uphold the Constitution and defend our border.

I'm a peace lover. Don't even like war movies. However if push comes to shove I think I can find it within me to kill in self defense against a lunatic, rapist, or a drug lord and not cry too much afterward.

Heck. Reading this thread is making me seriously reconsider my decision NOT to have a gun. The Feds won't protect us and the local police are willing but unable to be everywhere and when a criminal or mental case might decide to cut loose.

Either that or I'm going to start stockpiling swords, knives, throwing stars, acid-filled bottles, arrows, or rocks. It's amazing how many lethal things are out there. All it takes is a bit of ingenuity to make any them mass murder weapons. That's because the ultimate killer is Man...not a hunk of some inanimate object.

[Iangould]

Sounds like you've got all the answers. You can take back the reins, then. How's the economy doing? Still hitting up other nations for money?

Yeah, you'd never see America doing that.

[Iangould]

The is a inverse relationship w between the intensity of their desire to control firearms and their ignorance of the subject.

Yeah, that joe Manchin obviously knows nothing about guns.

It may be time to visit the NRA website and update your talking points.

[verslibre]

It's amazing how many lethal things are out there. All it takes is a bit of ingenuity to make any them mass murder weapons. That's because the ultimate killer is Man...not a hunk of some inanimate object.

Somebody gets it! Hallelujah!