People who chime in on vs. threads with "I don't like Superman at all, but he'd win.", STOP HELPING! Superman doesn't need your damning him with faint praise, thank you.
I think having challenges for Superman is fine, he can't break Braniacs Force Field for example, but the problem I had with the DCAU (season 1 really) was that Superman was easily taken out and one dimensional. He never seemed liked a thinker.
I recently watched Justice League Doom and there is one scene where Cyborg is using all his equiptment to run analysis, all I could think was, "hey just like Superman's Super senses!" Except of course Superman having an evolved mind seemed out of character at that time.
I dislike the idea that in order to highlight the rest of the League, Superman has to be a slug first brute that is forever overconfident and lacking any analytic or mental skills.
I like the idea of Superman sized threats, Parasite, Bizarro, Mxyzptlk, Mongul.... In the case of the Prankster, the threat isn't to Superman (though Kryptonite banana cream pies should suffice) the threat is to Metropolis. Sure the Prankster shouldn't take up a 7 issue crossover event, but guys like Prankster are the stuff Superman deals with on the way to taking out Solaris.
Since STAS was a kid's show, I'd definitely say there's room for slapstick comedy on the show. I would've loved to have seen Supes take banana cream pie to the face, or sit on an exploding whoopie cushion. Guys like Toyman and Prankster could've been like the annoying class clown.
One of the big issues with the JLA-related cartoons was that they tried to give every character a niche role on the team, and since Batman had so little to contribute physically (on the surface, at least; in several episodes, he seemed physically capable to get mixed up in the fray as other League members), they let him be the brains and the benefactor, leaving little room for other characters to impart their own wisdom and expertise.
You just answered your own question. Giant robots, monsters, alien overlords and social issues that can't simply be punched or heat visioned away.
Yes, Supes can easily beat up Bruno Mainhem's thugs but can he prove it was Bruno and not little Timmy's dad whom stole the money? Enter Clark Kent investigative reporter.
I'll always love the DCAU. Just that entire universe..they captured something special with it. The current DC cartoons certainly aren't bad(they are quite good) but they just don't capture the magic of the DCAU. Maybe it was just because it was a big shared universe, but it was awesome. The main difference between DCAU Supes and comic Supes is power levels. Granted their personalities aren't 100% alike, but there are some similarities. He does some things you might not of thought comic Supes would do..like beating down Captain Marvel despite technically having a good reason to do so. I also still wonder why he had to start destroying the park made for the kids instead of just spinning around at high speeds in order to go underground(which he does anyways).
Now I know eventually during that fight Supes stopped trying to fight back, but it wasn't for the entire fight though.
Last edited by Surtur; 12-28-2012 at 06:51 AM.
A woman can move a lot faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down.
That wasn't downgrading Clark. That was throwing a wrinkle into the love triangle story. In part three, Lois realizes the problem presented before her. She loves Superman, but she doesn't like Clark beyond being friends with him. And she's tired of coming second to Superman. So when Bruce Wayne enters the picture, she finds the kind of guy that she can like in him, that she cannot with Clark and will be there for her unlike Superman. But then she finds out that he's Batman and that puts a dampener on things, because he can be hurt and he can die. And he will not stop being Batman. It is the opposite of the relationship with Clark.They did the same during the World Finest movie in which they even had Batman hooking up with Lois. Bruce Timm and co, didn't waste any oportunity to downgrade, downplay Superman.
It wasn't about downgrading, it was about showing the complexity of what Lois wants in a companion.
So, again, how is this a problem?Originally Posted by DochaDocha
In the show? No. In the comics, his relationship with Vicki Vale ended because she found herself attracted to a fellow reporter, who didn't have the hang-ups Bruce's public persona had. As to Batman's own show, well, in "Mask Of The Phantasm", Arthur Reeves tried to move in on Andrea Beaumont even though he knew that Bruce would find out about her return. Andrea even tried to rub his nose in by kissing Arthur, while Bruce was inside her apartment in the shadows. People who talked about "World's Finest" forget about "Mask Of The Phantasm" and instead, try to be an asshat towards other Superman fans.I think it was okay to explore a story between Lois and Bruce Wayne, as it worked on a lot of levels. I only find it disappointing because that means that because Superman and Lois didn't get together until the very end of the show, or possibly even after, that means Bruce Wayne and Lois had a deeper relationship throughout the bulk of the series. And even though this shouldn't matter, I'm one of those guys who gets annoyed when you have to hear people talk about how Batman "took Superman's woman" and Superman did nothing about it. Or think about it this way, would the show ever portray another guy making Batman jealous by hitting on a traditional Batman love interest? I find that unlikely.
Who's being an asshat? I hope that wasn't directed at me...
Anyway, the Omega beam comment is a problem because it's either a mistake, or it's simply not true, and it (at least to me) felt like they were just looking for an excuse to compliment Batman. Best case scenario, they were just showing how Darkseid is just one of those insecure fellows who makes excuses whenever things don't go as he plans, which probably is the case, but the line just didn't feel right to me. Remember, we're talking about a show in which the other 6 Justice Leaguers spent 2 episodes to beat 6 members of the Injustice Gang when Batman was able to disable 5 of those 6 guys in 1 minute in another episode, or when Kalibak KO's Wonder Woman but then gets schooled by Batman directly afterward, or Batman KO'd Sinestro by flicking a Batarang at him, etc. Accident or not, the show had a distinct flavor of propping up Batman, so when you hear a line about how Batman was the only person to dodge an Omega Beam, it feels like more excessive praise.
I didn't like the DCAU at all. I loved Batman TAS, but the Superman TAS failed and I didn't like the JL of no A series either...they managed to treat Hawkman with even less respect than they did Superman.
Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield.
I'd further add that BTAS probably overemphasized a lot of Batman's limitations as a hero, as he often took a lot of punishment from fights, but once the universe expanded they started glossing over said limitations. Maybe that was a problem with STAS: they used a similar playbook for scripting fights that they used in the early BTAS years.
Just for full disclosure, I think BTAS was great, but STAS less so.
So there was an error. Not like they don't exist in films and television. Even animation has errors.Anyway, the Omega beam comment is a problem because it's either a mistake, or it's simply not true, and it (at least to me) felt like they were just looking for an excuse to compliment Batman. Best case scenario, they were just showing how Darkseid is just one of those insecure fellows who makes excuses whenever things don't go as he plans, which probably is the case, but the line just didn't feel right to me.
Bruce didn't disable the Injustice League. He turned them against each other. That doesn't make Batman better than the League. That just meant that in the story Bruce showed how he could be useful. Remember that he was hurt by Copperhead and when everyone was telling him to stay out of it, he went ahead and proved his worth to the team. Or are you referring to a different episode? And let's not forget that Bruce doesn't even fight Mongul in "For The Man Who Has Everything". As to Sinestro, are we talking "Justice League" or "The Batman"? I haven't seen some of these in a while.Remember, we're talking about a show in which the other 6 Justice Leaguers spent 2 episodes to beat 6 members of the Injustice Gang when Batman was able to disable 5 of those 6 guys in 1 minute in another episode, or when Kalibak KO's Wonder Woman but then gets schooled by Batman directly afterward, or Batman KO'd Sinestro by flicking a Batarang at him, etc. Accident or not, the show had a distinct flavor of propping up Batman, so when you hear a line about how Batman was the only person to dodge an Omega Beam, it feels like more excessive praise.
B:TAS was designed in the style of the Fleischer "Superman" cartoon shorts, as well as the live action films. With a dash of the Bronze Age mixed in. Despite being seriously limited in the first couple of seasons due to strict censorship guidelines from FOX Kids, they were able to emphasize the dangers in being Batman. Something that couldn't be done with the previous cartoons. With JL and JLU, they were following the guidelines set up by Morrison and Waid's run on the JLA series, complete with prep time. Likewise at the start of JL, the feeling from Bruce Timm was that if you have Superman or the Flash, then the threat would be over too quickly. Not just that, but they were still feeling their way around the team dynamic. Three years earlier, Timm stated that he wasn't interested in a JLA series, because he felt it would not only be like "Super Friends", but also a difficult challenge in making everyone look good. When season one began, it was only a year and a half since completing "The Call".I'd further add that BTAS probably overemphasized a lot of Batman's limitations as a hero, as he often took a lot of punishment from fights, but once the universe expanded they started glossing over said limitations. Maybe that was a problem with STAS: they used a similar playbook for scripting fights that they used in the early BTAS years.
And there's nothing wrong with a Superman who isn't insanely powerful. I mean, didn't Grant Morrison receive quite a bit of praise for his powered down Superman?