How long will Havok last as leader of the Uncanny Avengers?

[mikekerrIII]

What are you talking about? That was all a false peace.

A as long as humans are involved all peaces is tempray and false at least any peace outside the grave. But a false peace is far better than war, tempory relif from starv ation is far better than nothing, and not dying of dirty water for a while is far better than the alternatives,

the naive innocence of those that think t what Cyke and Company did with food and water alone is mind-boggling. But I guess most folks in the first world hare clueless about what the things he was fighting are, for rough numbers every month that you can provide food to the worlds starving you save half a million lives, With water it is about thirty thousand lives a month, there is nothing "false" about that

[mikekerrIII]

Yeah, I guess he gets props for properly feeding and hydrating the people he was later planning on murdering. Most people that try to murder all of humanity aren't as considerate.

He was planning on murdering, what books is that plan mentioned in? He went newts after repeated attacks not becasue of anything he planed

[mikekerrIII]

It's not actually slander.

And I'd argue telling people he was going to burn the world falls under the planning on murder category.

But the planning part of your post is simply a lie without any justification anywhere in the story

[XPac]

But the planning part of your post is simply a lie without any justification anywhere in the story

The fact that he said he was going to burn the world is my justification for saying he was planning on burning the world. I don't think he was planning it from day one, but it's what his plans were for day 12. That's right out of his own mouth.

[stussyjones]

To quote the first line from preview pages of Consequences 2: The earth was saved. Mutant population reborn, and the Phoenix exorcised. But the world is in a state of rebuilding- reeling from near annihilation at the hands of Cyclops.

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The Avengers and X-Men saved the entire human race from destruction. That makes them heroes, not that they weren't before that as they've done this dozens of times. Dead people can't do a whole lot with free food, water and energy so I see the overall net gain from that as pretty substantial.

They wouldn't be dead if the "heroes" decided from the beginning that P5 weren't evil and gave them a chance thats it. If you read AvX and feel like the "heroes" came out looking like heroes then that's your opinion

[XPac]

They wouldn't be dead if the "heroes" decided from the beginning that P5 weren't evil and gave them a chance thats it. If you read AvX and feel like the "heroes" came out looking like heroes then that's your opinion

P5 Magik by her own admission is essentially evil and insane even without the Phoenix. She ALONE is frankly enough justifiation to try and remove the PF from them.

We'll never know for a fact what might happened if the Avenger did nothing in AvX. I'm sure we'll get some sort of What If down the line (though I imagine the world will end up end... that's typical of What If's). What we do know is that the Dark Phoenix tried to burn all of humanity, and the Avengers and X-Men stopped him.

[stussyjones]

P5 Magik by her own admission is essentially evil and insane even without the Phoenix. She ALONE is frankly enough justifiation to try and remove the PF from them.

We'll never know for a fact what might happened if the Avenger did nothing in AvX. I'm sure we'll get some sort of What If down the line (though I imagine the world will end up end... that's typical of What If's). What we do know is that the Dark Phoenix tried to burn all of humanity, and the Avengers and X-Men stopped him.

They contribute to him going dark Phoenix

[stussyjones]

The fact that he said he was going to burn the world is my justification for saying he was planning on burning the world. I don't think he was planning it from day one, but it's what his plans were for day 12. That's right out of his own mouth.

That wasn't Scott that was dark Phoenix

[XPac]

That wasn't Scott that was dark Phoenix

In Uncanny, he flat out said "I am still Scott Summers" while he was doing it. Note the Consequences preview I posted earlier... it said: "But the world is in a state of rebuilding- reeling from near annihilation at the hands of Cyclops".

I won't say he was entirely accountable for his actions... but similar to Wanda I think the books make it clear some of that was him.

[Memphis Raines]

to the topic at hand, i think that cap's main attribute is his leadership quality. Take him out of that comfortable role, and what do you have? An old-school soldier on some grade-a steroids. He's always been portrayed as a natural leader, so i can't see how remender can just push cap to the background.

spot on!!!!!!!!

[AcesX1X]

i wonder if thor took it upon himself to destroy the crop fields in siberia. which avenger do you think went out to the gobi desert and wrecked the free energy machine? who went underwater and took apart the filtration system that namor built? maybe carol.

[XPac]

i wonder if thor took it upon himself to destroy the crop fields in siberia. which avenger do you think went out to the gobi desert and wrecked the free energy machine? who went underwater and took apart the filtration system that namor built? maybe carol.

I doubt any of them dismantled any of it honestly. For the most part I imagine the local governments themselve dismantled any infastructure the P5 put up.

That's the thing about forced Utopias... because the world didn't bring it about themselve, it was always very unlikely that it could be sustained without the P5 themselves there to sustain it.

[Vic Vega]

P5 Magik by her own admission is essentially evil and insane even without the Phoenix. She ALONE is frankly enough justifiation to try and remove the PF from them.

We'll never know for a fact what might happened if the Avenger did nothing in AvX. I'm sure we'll get some sort of What If down the line (though I imagine the world will end up end... that's typical of What If's). What we do know is that the Dark Phoenix tried to burn all of humanity, and the Avengers and X-Men stopped him.

As far as AvX goes, if Cyclops had his way in the first place, the world would have burned since it was only with Wanda's intervention that it was possible for Hope to renounce the Phoenix(and it was argueably only her training in Kun Lun that gave her the will to do so).

Cyke's intial plan was Hope gets the Phoenix and she fixes everything. That was not going to work in any case. So being on Cyke's side didn't help jack. His error in judgement happen to work out for Mutantkind but no thanks to him.

[XPac]

As far as AvX goes, if Cyclops had his way in the first place, the world would have burned since it was only with Wanda's intervention that it was possible for Hope to renounce the Phoenix(and it was argueably only her training in Kun Lun that gave her the will to do so).

Cyke's intial plan was Hope gets the Phoenix and she fixes everything. That was not going to work in any case. So being on Cyke's side didn't help jack. His error in judgement happen to work out for Mutantkind but no thanks to him.

Finger pointing aside, I think things ended up the way they needed to end up. It's probably a good thing in a lot of instances that various people didn't get exactly what they wanted. They instead ended up getting what they needed.

[Vic Vega]

Finger pointing aside, I think things ended up the way they needed to end up. It's probably a good thing in a lot of instances that various people didn't get exactly what they wanted. They instead ended up getting what they needed.

Again, that is Marvel ignoring the elephant in the room: Not everybody who got changed wanted to be a Mutant. Not every extant Mutant wanted thier mutations. Someone like Sammy the Fish boy or Rockslide would have been happy to be depowered. A dude who got turned into a ambulatory tree is going to want to know whose @$$ is he going to beat for turning him into a freak.