Nearly twenty dead at school shooting

[thwhtGuardian]

You have just awoken the wrath of SuperE, woe be unto you!

[Nick Soapdish]

Obama still got elected 2 times, so it is possible to make things happen, if enough people want it. We are not talking about a third world country here.

Not all of it. Just several states that are backsliding into banana republics.

See that's not how democracy works.

You hav a limited range of parties to choose from, none of which represent your views 100%.


This hypothetical pro-death-penalty party, what' their stance on gay marriage? Because whatever it is, st least 40% o the population is going to disagree with it.

For that matter, I support the death penalty but only in certain extremely restricted circumstances (essentially limited to treason and terrorism). So I'm unlikely to vote for a single-issue party running on a platform of broad application of the death penalty in criminal cases. how do I fit into you paradigm?

Yep. That hypothetical anti-death penalty party only comes into play if that 75% of voters also consider the death penalty to be their dealbreaker issue and would, for example, be just as happy voting for Michelle Bachmann or Keith Ellison (to pick two very different candidates in nearby, but not as adjacent districts as one might expect) as long as they were the anti-death penalty candidate in their region. And then there are the problems that lots of voters are very low information voters so that they wouldn't necessarily know about that plank - or they're just straight ticket voters, regardless of what the candidates say.

[mikekerrIII]

I consider a little fear of weapons quite rational...

Respect yes, fear is just silly.

[mikekerrIII]

Things change.

I mean, back in the 60's it was also okay to discriminate against blacks too but you'd be hard pressed to find many people who would agree that because such a practice was okay when they grew up that it should be okay now. Public opinion shifts over time, that's just nature.

Public opinion has not changed all that much over the years, 90% of the public don't want guns to be banned and a majority of states have carrying licensees that drives the left nuts,and that number is increasing.

[thehod]

Now that is cooking the books. You can argue that guns make suicides easier, though you cannot claim that people commit suicide *because* of guns.

No, but suicide via guns is usually more successful than with other methods.

[Vibranium]

No, but suicide via guns is usually more successful than with other methods.

Id prefer jumping off a building

[Sonofspam]

Respect yes, fear is just silly.

Why not fear something that can kill you in a instant?

[mikekerrIII]

But the majority of Americans is not in any way at all okay with the situation, and is becoming less okay with it with each passing massacre.

A large majoruity in the US is far closer to my postion than yours or Duponts,

[thehod]

Respect yes, fear is just silly.

You know, I've got a mate who works on installing and maintaining overhead line equipment for Britains railways. These cables, when live, have 25kv running through them, and will cook your insides in seconds, and blow great holes in you. The thought of working near this sort of equipment terrifies me, and its something I'd never do.

I once asked him if he was ever scared about what he does, and he said that after 25 years doing it, under all sorts of conditions, he's still scared ever time he goes out to do a job. In his opinion, the moment you stop being scared is the moment you screw up and fry.

Fear is not always a negative reaction, and I think if you're not just a little bit afraid of guns, then you're being too damn complacent about them.

[mikekerrIII]

If the majority has a problem with this situation, then it should not be a problem to change the second amendment.

An Imaginary majority has can only imagine the power to do that.

[mikekerrIII]

Yeah unless you live in the US where voter suppression is very real.

Where it actual effect on elections seems to have been negligible at best

[mikekerrIII]

Why not fear something that can kill you in a instant?

Becasue it is an inamimate object that doesn't do so on it's own.

I guess Cars which are just as deadly scare you? They can kill you in an instant also

[snarkbunny]

Respect yes, fear is just silly.

Fear isn't silly, Mike - Undesirable and irrational, but not silly. It's a chemical response to a perceived danger that is typically involuntary.

I'm a little afraid of heights. I used to be more afraid of heights, but I've worked at overcoming the fear and I have been successful to a degree. Part of working on overcoming the fear was learning to recognize when the lizard part of my brain was going off and consciously assessing whether the risk was real and significant or not. Even when I recognize that the lizard brain is in a freakout, I still have to control my reactions, I hesitate before getting on a down escalator for example. And it influences my judgement. For example, I do not find the thought of bungee jumping appealing in the slightest. The thing is , I know that, and I know that my reactions are not the same as everyone else's.

If a person is afraid of guns, then that fear influences their reactions and judgements both at a conscious and subconscious level. I know a woman so afraid of guns, she would not her son join cadets because he would learn how to shoot. That isn't good.

Or perhaps another analogy is better, does being fearful make a person a better driver? Not in my opinion. Granted with both driving and guns and well pretty much everything, people can go too far the other way and not be respectful and wary enough, but that doesn't change the fact that fear causes problems. And making decisions based on fear is only sometimes a good thing. A lot of the time, it only relieves the fear for a short time and doesn't actually solve the problem.
That is where the NRA is currently infuriating me, because they are playing on people's fears and trying to get them to buy into a solution that will make their sponsors money and solve NOTHING.

Now I will get me in trouble some more. I don't think anyone who wants a gun because they are afraid should have one. Having a gun because you are afraid is just as bad as being afraid of guns. A gun is not a teddy bear to make a person feel better, it is a tool that was designed to be able to kill. And frankly, being afraid impairs judgement and that is one of the ways how unintentional shootings happen. Likewise, anyone who wants a gun because it makes them feel more powerful and in control should not be allowed to own guns either. Guns are not crutches for self-esteem. Guns don't solve problems, they are merely implementation tools.

I'm in favour of gun control and mandatory training that is certified and enforced, but I also recognize that this doesn't solve the issues. It just buys time and breathing room to try to contain the problem while it's being worked on.

[Buried Alien]

If you fellows don't mind, I've moved all the Guns 'n Roses talk to a more appropriate thread.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Moderator Alive!)

[thwhtGuardian]

Public opinion has not changed all that much over the years, 90% of the public don't want guns to be banned and a majority of states have carrying licensees that drives the left nuts,and that number is increasing.

Stats just don't bear that out, other wise gun ownership would be on the rise but the opposite is in fact happening.