Would Joker have been a prominent character in TDKR if Heath Ledger didn't die?

[theDarkJAww13]

I was having this discussion with a few friends the other day and I honestly can't come to a conclusion either way.

So what you all think? If Ledger survived to the filming of TDKR, do you think Nolan would have brought the Joker back for it?
This may have even been mentioned by him before and I just don't know. Honestly I felt after TDK that they were definitely planning on bringing Joker back, especially considering the 'we're destined to do this forever' line - though I feel that was even more haunting of a line with the complete lack of Joker in the third film.

The obvious answer would be yes, they'd bring him back, mainly due to Ledger's performance and the character's popularity. But at the same time you can argue that Burton didn't bring Joker back despite Nicholson's iconic performance and the fact that the movie made Joker almost as much of a household name as it had made Batman himself. Sure Joker was killed in that movie - but I'm sure it could have been explained that he lived if they REALLY wanted him to.

Also, if they DID bring Joker back for TDKR, what effect do you think it would have had on the movie/character? Do you think it would have been a little TOO much Joker (over saturation of a character)? How do you think the story's plot would have differed? Would Bane have gotten as big a role - or revert to Batman & Robin status? haha

let me know!

[Eric Chang]

i'm pretty sure the original plan was to have the movie shorter, just finish when they catch joker, then have the third one centered on two face, with joker perhaps playing more of a support role?

[LoneNecromancer]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was said Nolan had to do a different plot for the third film than the one he'd originally intended.

[kakitamike]

I know i've listened to and read a couple interviews that said Joker was the main plan for TDKR. Given, most of my bat movie news is from industry people interviewed in podcasts, but hopefully they're not just making stuff up.

[SicSexSix]

I've heard too many conflicting reports to say absolutely about anything, but the one underlying point that always came up is that yes, Joker would have been in the third film in SOME capacity. I have my doubts that he would've been the main villain again, because popular as he was, Nolan's not a guy known for repeating himself, and he wouldn't have used the same main protagonist unless he had a completely fresh & different idea of what to do with him on the second time out. There was a lot of wishful thinking that he would automatically be the central bad guy again just because he was so popular, but if it didn't flow with the arc that he had planned from the beginning, it wouldn't have happened. Would Bane still have been the main bad guy? Again, I've heard yes & I've heard no from people I've worked with that were involved with the trilogy, but the Nolan brothers & David Goyer are the only ones who know for sure. It would've been nice to see that get wrapped up in some form or fashion, even if they went with the "left to rot in Arkham while all the other criminals go free" idea from the novel.

[Murrocko]

Positive I read somewhere he was planned to appear in some way or another in the third film. Ledger's unfortunate death lead to a completely different third movie than Nolan had originally planned. No clue what that movie would have been, but I think it would have been a lot different than the movie we did end up getting. Though if they did for some reason go with Rises the way it is today had Ledger lived, I could have totally seen him in the role Scarecrow played as judge, jury, and executioner.

[carabas]

But at the same time you can argue that Burton didn't bring Joker back despite Nicholson's iconic performance and the fact that the movie made Joker almost as much of a household name as it had made Batman himself. Sure Joker was killed in that movie - but I'm sure it could have been explained that he lived if they REALLY wanted him to.

That's going on the pretty spurious assumption that Nicholson could have been persuaded to come back. He's not a sequel guy.

Meanwhile, considering that Ledger played the only movie Batvillain ever to not die, he was almost certain to have a multiple-movie contract.

[T Hedge Coke]

Meanwhile, considering that Ledger played the only movie Batvillain ever to not die, he was almost certain to have a multiple-movie contract.

You mean beside Riddler, Catwoman (all of them), Scarecrow, Zsasz, Freeze, Ivy, and every villain from the first bat-flick, completely?

I think he would've likely been brought back in some strong fashion, yeah, but that Joker was not the first or only bat-villain not to die in a batmovie.

[stk]

So what you all think? If Ledger survived to the filming of TDKR, do you think Nolan would have brought the Joker back for it?

No. I really think he wouldn't have. He already told that story.

[Zak213]

i think Bane would have killed joker or atleast tried to when he takes over gotham.

[Choppa]

Yeah as was said Nolan was supposedly going to use in him in the third movie but had to change things when Ledger passed. I tried to find the quote that says it but I couldn't.

[carabas]

You mean beside Riddler

Braindamaged. More than usually.

Catwoman (all of them)

Not really a villain.

Scarecrow

Was actually in both sequels, strengthening the point that the Joker was supposed to be in Th Dark Knight Rises.

Zsasz

I don't think they counted him as a villain, more like a mook.

Freeze, Ivy

Those were in a Batman film?

[LostinFandom]

Probably, but I'm not sure how. The third movie was largely about bringing Batman's training with the League of Assassins full circle. Would it be the kind of fandom battle "Who's Batman's greatest rogue, the Joker or Ra's?" Flipping TDK's message that Batman's debut may have brought the Joker into existence, to the Joker proves Batman is on the side of good, while Ra's brings him closer to totalitarianism.

Although I can't picture Catwoman appearing that scenario.

[coveredinbees]

Braindamaged. More than usually.
Not really a villain.

Was actually in both sequels, strengthening the point that the Joker was supposed to be in Th Dark Knight Rises.

I don't think they counted him as a villain, more like a mook.

Those were in a Batman film?

Zsasz almost killed Rachel and that little kid.
Ivy and Freeze were in Batman and Robin.

[Monty_Cristo]

i heard that he would have shown up at the end of the movie to beat on Robin.