Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    89

    Default Ranking the Anime Homunculi

    So in Brotherhood it was pretty clear that Pride and Wrath were #1 and #2. Pride was in a league of his own really.

    But what about the 2003 anime?

    Notable differences between Anime and Manga Homunculi:
    -Bradley is Pride and has standard Homunculi regen as well as blur-speed
    -Sloth is made of water
    -Wrath is a kid who can use alchemy and merge his body with any substance
    -Envy has no "monster" form but he's also a much better fighter in the anime and he's the oldest Homunculus
    -Lust and Gluttony are pretty much the same only Gluttony lacks the false gate
    -Greed only has his original powers and is not Greed-Ling. He was the second oldest Homunculus in the anime though.

    So how would you rank 'em from strongest to weakest?

  2. #2
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    Wrath is pretty solidly number one, assuming you combine his physical feats in the movie and his alchemy which he'd lost by that point.

    Really, had he not been suicidal and running out of philosopher stones, he would have killed Monster Gluttony.

    Also, as he pointed out, he doesn't have a convenient weakness that can be used against him.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  3. #3
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Arthenantioc, Fuclethkltetch
    Posts
    20,682

    Default

    I'd contest original Wrath being number 2: He's clearly the most skilled, and one of the most intelligent... But his actual powers are fairly limited (If very good in their narrow area of focus) and he can't regenerate. It really depends on your ranking basis.

    Haven't watched the diverging adaptation, so I can't really comment there.
    A Flock of Sheep.
    A Pack of Wolves.
    An Inconvenience of Heroes.

  4. #4
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Dream Realm
    Posts
    22,886

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    So in Brotherhood it was pretty clear that Pride and Wrath were #1 and #2. Pride was in a league of his own really.

    But what about the 2003 anime?

    Notable differences between Anime and Manga Homunculi:
    -Bradley is Pride and has standard Homunculi regen as well as blur-speed
    -Sloth is made of water
    -Wrath is a kid who can use alchemy and merge his body with any substance
    -Envy has no "monster" form but he's also a much better fighter in the anime and he's the oldest Homunculus
    -Lust and Gluttony are pretty much the same only Gluttony lacks the false gate
    -Greed only has his original powers and is not Greed-Ling. He was the second oldest Homunculus in the anime though.

    So how would you rank 'em from strongest to weakest?

    Probably:
    1) Wrath - As stated, he has alchemy and could use that to fuck up the other homonculi if he had the brains to, plus merging with substances could increase usefulness depending on the materials. Unfortunately, his mentality cripples his true effectiveness, so I'd actually rank him lower, but if we're just going by sheer power/potential, I'll place him at 1.

    2) Sloth - Being made of water, there's really nothing the others can do to permanently damage her, as she effectively shouldn't even need to use up stones just to regen, she can water morph her wounds away.

    3) Envy - Good fighter and general shape shifting make him good for infiltration.

    4) Greed - His ultimate shield is pretty tough to get through to actually damage him, unless you have something like alchemy, or have the means to trap him.

    5) Pride - Fighting skill and speed make him deadly in a fight, but he lacks the special protection of others.

    6) Gluttony - Ability to eat anything can be useful, but limited intelligence can be taken advantage of. This is not factoring his massive monster form, mind you, which would probably rank him at 2 or 3.

    7) Lust - All things considered, she's definitely one of the smarter homonculi, but she's not the best of the fighters (which granted isn't to say she's weak), and her finger blade power isn't especially destructive or good for defense in and of itself.
    Last edited by Sharkerbob; 12-14-2012 at 07:50 AM.
    It's a lie! My pants were off the entire time!

    I've got a new site for RPGs: Total Pantaloonacy

  5. #5
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Probably:
    1) Wrath - As stated, he has alchemy and could use that to fuck up the other homonculi if he had the brains to, plus merging with substances could increase usefulness depending on the materials. Unfortunately, his mentality cripples his true effectiveness, so I'd actually rank him lower, but if we're just going by sheer power/potential, I'll place him at 1.
    Honestly, even while freaking the fuck out (his standard MO for all of his appearances), he still had the smarts to do stuff like fuse dozens of guns into his arm and try shoot the crap out of Ed.
    Aside from that one time he got intimidated by Lust despite the fact that his capacities are lightyears ahead of hers, I can't recall him really losing a fight without his "freak out and run away" factor getting in the way.

    By the time Conqueror of Shamballa came around, he seemed pretty well, mentally speaking. Aside from the suicidal part. Plus the stats to blitz Monster Glottony and overpower him to the point of ripping his arms out.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Wrath is definitely not the complete psycho he was by the time of the film but he's still inexperienced. Bradley was capable of regenerating from being incinerated/exploding like nothing happened. I don't see why Wrath's physical stats would be much of a threat to the other Homunculi who are both smarter and can regenerate from anything he tries.

    Heck, all it would take is Envy employing one of his favorite tactics - shapeshifting into a loved one - and Wrath would be toast.

    Ya know, speaking of Wrath, it got me thinking about how much Anime Izumi seemed more badass than Manga Izumi. Anime Izumi might actually be a top tier for the whole verse, only beaten out by Hohenheim and Dante. Her health does hamper her a lot though. She can't engage in a prolonged fight at all.
    Last edited by NuBatFan; 12-14-2012 at 09:01 AM.

  7. #7
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    Wrath is definitely not the complete psycho he was by the time of the film but he's still inexperienced. Bradley was capable of regenerating from being incinerated/exploding like nothing happened. I don't see why Wrath's physical stats would be much of a threat to the other Homunculi who are both smarter and can regenerate from anything he tries.
    They have a limited number of lives, same as him. His alchemy gives him a ridiculous advantage over any of them (there's no reason he couldn't, for example, replicate Greed's Ultimate Shield assuming the battle takes place somewhere where he can grab the required materials.) and his physical stats are such that he could just kill them over and over. (Aside from Sloth, but he has her remnants, so yeah.)

    Bradley is good...but again, limited number of lives, his only offense is his sword which Wrath could easily protect himself against and unlike Wrath he has the convenient weakness of his old body's remnants, which instantly screws him over.
    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    Heck, all it would take is Envy employing one of his favorite tactics - shapeshifting into a loved one - and Wrath would be toast.
    What

    Envy can do that and kill Wrath...once. What does he do for the dozens of other lives? Pray that the stronger, faster and more versatile guy forgets that he's there?

    That's the thing - the other Homunculi (aside from Sloth*) are one-trick marvels. Wrath's combo of alchemy and high stats make him a lot better if this is the more stable movie version. (Though again, this is assuming we're combining his movie feats with his alchemy.)

    If this is just series Wrath with his alchemy, I'd still rank him at the top. With the added note that the heavy odds of losing his shit make him less effective than he should be.

    *: Incidentally, I'll agree that Sloth beats Wrath, but that has less to do with her abilities than with the fact that Wrath would probably spend the entire 'fight' crying. Assuming this isn't one of the days when Wrath randomly flies into "attack everything in sight" mode.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  8. #8
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    That said, Bradley might beat Wrath in the arena. as long as he never ever lets Wrath hit him. And assuming Wrath can't merge with the arena's floor to protect against Bradley's sword.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    What

    Envy can do that and kill Wrath...once. What does he do for the dozens of other lives? Pray that the stronger, faster and more versatile guy forgets that he's there?
    First I'd like to know why you even think Wrath is faster. Lust was gonna kill him just fine and she actually has confirmed superhuman attack speed. She killed Yoki in front of dozens of people and not a one of them could see her finger strikes.

    Bradley also has blur/dash speed + the Ultimate Eye and yet he was unable to react to Envy attacking him.

    Why do you think Wrath is so much faster?

    Wrath was undoubtedly more stable in the film but he was still fighting a mindless opponent. I don't see any reason to assume he is a tactical genius who will be outsmarting people with dozens/hundreds of years more experience than him.
    Last edited by NuBatFan; 12-14-2012 at 11:02 AM.

  10. #10
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    First I'd like to know why you even think Wrath is faster.
    I grant that after rewatching, Wrath isn't as fast as my memory said. My impression must've come from the lower quality that I watched years ago which made things more blurry.
    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    Lust was gonna kill him just fine and she actually has confirmed superhuman attack speed.
    You're referring to the time she killed him once, he immediately got back up, she threatened to do it again until he stopped doing that and he then proceeded to freak the hell out and run away?

    Because that's not particularly a sign that Lust can beat him "just fine". That's Wrath being ridiculously unstable mentally to the point of going from "completely confident" to "scared shitless" in two seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    Bradley also has blur/dash speed + the Ultimate Eye and yet he was unable to react to Envy attacking him.
    When did Bradley fight Envy?
    Quote Originally Posted by NuBatFan View Post
    Wrath was undoubtedly more stable in the film but he was still fighting a mindless opponent. I don't see any reason to assume he is a tactical genius who will be outsmarting people with dozens/hundreds of years more experience than him.
    Because when you're at the point that you can tear someone apart by punching them. can make yourself functionally invincible to their attacks and can fuse your arm with dozens of machine guns,"outsmarting" is not particularly required. (Assuming we're talking a scenario)

    Also, we must have been watching different anime is you think the other Homunculi were strategic geniuses who showed centuries of experience. Wrath was the most prone to freak out and Gluttony was a moron, sure, but the others weren't exactly Batman.

    Now, if you want to say "well there are certain situations where the other Homunculi are better than/can win against Wrath", then sure, I won't deny that.

    My point is that in terms of overall capacities, Wrath is pretty solidly above the others.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  11. #11
    God Of Tokusatsu Guy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Posts
    64,558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    When did Bradley fight Envy?
    Well, it wasn't exaclty a fight.
    Envy was yelling at Dante and trying to find Hoenheim, Bradley basically calls him out on his daddy issues, so Envy flips out and kicks him across the room, leaps on top of him and starts punching him, doing no real damage. Envy then gets off of Bradley and goes berserk and starts pounding on the ground and making craters. Bradley didn't even bother fighting back and didn't even seem all that concerned about the guy.
    Won 6 Awesome Awards, 2Cool awards, 2 internets, a Raging storm and funniest video award
    My RPG Site!

  12. #12
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    Basically, to make my point, a breakdown of how the other are above Wrath.

    Lust - Her fingernails are faster. That's...about all she has over him. She's smarter too.
    Gluttony - Err...Okay, I can't think of anything that Gluttony is better at, except eating. If you're counting his giant monster form, I guess he's harder to kill.
    Pride - Pride is a way better fighter and probably faster (though I'm blanking on what his feats were). Also has the Ultimate Eye. Wrath's alchemy means he can basically make himself invincible to Pride though. as long as he finds enough metal.
    Greed - Err...yeah. Greed is screwed against Wrath, because Alchemy messes up his Ultimate Shield and Wrath could just straight-up steal it. (2003 Wrath would probably never think of that though.)
    Envy - Smarter, more skilled, stealthier.
    Sloth - Here I'd agree that Wrath is screwed in a fight due to her general wateriness, except he happens to have her kryptonite. So if he fought her instead of having an emotional breakdown, it's be an easy win for him.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  13. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    89

    Default

    The incident with Envy and Bradley

    It's the only direct comparison we have and I realize it's minor but I always found it telling myself. Bradley clearly looks straight at Envy and he even must have seen Envy was about to attack him because he moves his body some. he just wasn't fast enough to get out of the way and I see no reason at all to assume he let himself get attacked as just a moment before he had looked quite pissed at Envy, gritting his teeth and everything.

  14. #14
    The Omniversial Nightmare kain5252's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Who Knows
    Posts
    25,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    They have a limited number of lives, same as him. His alchemy gives him a ridiculous advantage over any of them (there's no reason he couldn't, for example, replicate Greed's Ultimate Shield assuming the battle takes place somewhere where he can grab the required materials.) and his physical stats are such that he could just kill them over and over. (Aside from Sloth, but he has her remnants, so yeah.)
    Since he can merge with anything. I would imagine Greed would be all the material he would need.

  15. #15
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kain5252 View Post
    Since he can merge with anything. I would imagine Greed would be all the material he would need.
    I was referring to a fight with one of the others. Like I said, Greed is completely screwed against him if he takes a few seconds to think.

    ...Well, against any HtH fighter that can use alchemy and understand the Ultimate Shield, really.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •