View Poll Results: As a minority, does Marvel represent your race well?

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  • Yes

    24 22.64%
  • No

    82 77.36%
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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siryn View Post
    Who else am I missing? I really hate the idea that women can't be depicted as beautiful, strong *and* smart.
    Valeria Richards, though she's just a kid and considering her brother, she'll probably never grow up. We've seen her adult form a few times. Claremont introduced Alyssa Moy, an old girlfriend of Reed's who's also his intellectual equal, but I consider that pretty lame. She's as smart as Reed, but she never does anything and we never hear about her. Intelligence of that degree shouldn't be given to a character unless we're going to see them use it.

    Edit: And another, Monet St. Croix. I think she was supposed to be a genius in Generation X, but she hasn't had many chances to show off in X-Factor that I can remember.
    Last edited by Neutrino; 12-26-2012 at 03:06 AM.

  2. #512
    Senior Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    There is also Komodo who improved Connors' Lizard Formula.
    Me: Please Marvel, give some spotlight to your 21th century creations instead of killing them every month.
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  3. #513
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino View Post
    Valeria Richards, though she's just a kid and considering her brother, she'll probably never grow up. We've seen her adult form a few times. Claremont introduced Alyssa Moy, an old girlfriend of Reed's who's also his intellectual equal, but I consider that pretty lame. She's as smart as Reed, but she never does anything and we never hear about her. Intelligence of that degree shouldn't be given to a character unless we're going to see them use it.
    Valeria was also created by Claremont. As for Alyssa Moy, I think CC had plans for her but they went out the window once he left the book. Millar used her during his FF and run and pretty much ruined the character. IIRC, Hickman put the nail in the character's coffin by killing her off.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siryn View Post
    Who else am I missing? I really hate the idea that women can't be depicted as beautiful, strong *and* smart.
    The reason there aren't many female geniuses in comics really has more to do with how the standard character archetypes are set up and less to do with sexism, though that of course plays a role. If you think about, most smart characters fall into one of three categories - the nerdy student, the absent-minded genius, or the insufferably arrogant mastermind. But given that most writers are ill-versed in scientific matters anyway, these roles are generally more defined by how they relate to women than their actual exploits. The nerd of course crushes on the pretty popular girl at school but struggles to gain her attention, the genius will have a dutiful wife or girlfriend that he never pays attention to, and the mastermind will claim he has little time for women but will inevitably be captivated by the heroine du jour and will try and make her his queen or something. The sexism comes in because obviously the love interests themselves have little agency and are treated as nothing more than objects, and writers are loath to reverse the gender roles and assign a male character this uneviable position.

  5. #515

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    There's a decent number; none confirmed as "Top Ten smartest" like the men, though. Ignoring the potential of Valeria Richards, you have Ruby Thursday, Monicca Rappuccini (sp?), Doctor Nightshade
    You were just one letter off - Dr. Monica Rappaccini. The only two in your list I've worked on are Deadly Nightshade (Tilda Johnson) and Ruby Thursday (Thursday Rubinstein), which are IMO cool characters who have been featured in interesting storylines.

    Dr. Evelyn Necker (the creator of Death's Head (Minion)) would also be on the list, I think.
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  6. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    I think it was a consensus. That i took literal. So that is why the whole Wolverine relationship confused me.
    As an idiot who's been through every appearance of Yukio the Wild One up to 2010, I can help a bit :
    - it is never outright stated or shown that she and Logan are lovers.
    - however, there are numerous scenes where their body language suggests physical intimacy, such as holding hands.
    - why Yukio likes Ororo so much was never explained - it just is
    - this led some fans to jump to conclusions about Yukio being attracted toward Ororo - but then when shown a painting with a glass of water and an apple on a wooden table, some people will conclude that the glass and the apple are lovers

    I would imagine that Yukio and Logan have a hard-to-define relationship as occasional sex buddies and kind of-sort-of-lovers-but-not-really when they're both otherwise single, explaining those scenes where they're holding hands or stroking each other's face while at other times they're just friends. But that's just a fan No-Prize Hypothesis.
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  7. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    There's also Nightshade ( a villain) But yeah, marvel & dc are both lacking in the female big brain department.
    With DC, there's Veronica Cale, villain from Wonder Woman's rogues gallery who showed up in the 52 series (Oolong Island storyline).

  8. #518
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    I'm trying to make a full list of the smartest women; can anyone add to this?
    A great thread to help with this, discussing Marvel female scientists: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...reply&t=435381

    THE SMARTEST WOMEN/GENIUS LEVEL
    Athena, Goddess of Widsom
    Deadly Nightshade [Dr. Tilda Johnson] (polymathic person)
    Dr. Kavita Rao
    Dr. Moira MacTaggert
    Monica Rappaccini (polymathic person)
    Ruby Thursday [Dr. Thursday Rubinstein]
    Starlight [Dr. Tania Belinsky]
    Superia [Dr. Deidra Wentworth] (polymathic person)
    the Witch [Dr. June Covington]

    VERY, VERY SMART/NEAR GENIUS
    Alyssa Moy
    Dr. Evelyn Necker
    Lady Octopus [Carolyn Trainer] (polymathic person?)
    Maya Hansen
    Miss Sinister [Claudine Renko]
    MODAM
    Moondragon [Heather Douglas]

    STILL INCREDIBLY SMART
    Blackbird [Heather O’Gara]
    Danger
    the Genegineer [Dr. Sasha Ryan]
    Dr. Jean Grey
    Kitty Pryde
    Komodo
    Mockingbird [Bobbi Morse]
    Moonstone [Dr. Karla Sofen, M.D.]
    Sage
    Valeria Richards
    Dr. Veronica Chase
    the White Queen [Emma Frost]
    Yellowjacket [Rita deMara]

    I don’t know who these are, could you help explain them???
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    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 12-26-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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  9. #519
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Polymorph? I think you mean Polymath.
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  10. #520

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Polymorph? I think you mean Polymath.
    I dated a Polymorph once..it didnt work because she kept putting me through changes.

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  11. #521
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Evelyn Necker should be up there, and I think Carolyn Trainer is on the same level as Dr. Octopus, who has his focus in radiation IIRC?
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  12. #522

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I'm trying to make a full list of the smartest women; can anyone add to this?
    A few comments :

    - To my knowledge, Dr. Belinksi is an extraordinary surgeon but not a genius. I haven't read most of her appearances as Starlight, though, so caveat.

    - Alyssa is IIRC near-superhuman in terms of intelligence.

    - I don't think I've seen MODAM actually demonstrate heightened intelligence, but I haven't read everything.

    - OTOH I think i've read every Jackdaw/Blackbird appearance and she never demonstrated such skills, though she is handy with technology.

    - It is unclear whether Karla Sofen is actually a MD - there have been contradictory information as noted here. I would err toward "no she ain't".
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  13. #523
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    Something that's usually overlooked when considering the representation of minorities in comics is that the standard straight WASP male protagonist is a fair bit easier to write because it allows the writers to take more risks with the character without offending anyone. Just take AvX for example, and imagine if Cyclops had been black. As he is, Cyclops is a pretty vanilla character, he doesn't really represent anyone so there's no risk of any stories involving him being taken the wrong way, and the writers are basically free to do anything with him that they wish. If he were black, however, all those scenes of him torturing prisoners and eating human flesh take on a completely different meaning. Now instead of just a regular guy taking a dark turn, AvX is now a story about a strong black authority figure turning into freakin' Idi Amin. And that scene of him choking Emma suddenly looks like some power hungry savage assaulting a helpless Aryan damsel. Unfortunate implications abound, and Marvel would have never gotten away with it, even if the other elements of the story had remained completely unchanged.

    Now this doesn't exactly excuse Marvel, but minority characters do require a fair bit more careful handling to pull off the kind stories centered around morally ambiguous anti-heroes that Marvel loves to tell. Their writers don't really seem up to the task to do this with minorities, and I'd rather them avoid it than make a mess of it in the attempt.

  14. #524
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Yes I think we all remember Bishop and to a lesser extent Forge
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  15. #525
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Something that's usually overlooked when considering the representation of minorities in comics is that the standard straight WASP male protagonist is a fair bit easier to write because it allows the writers to take more risks with the character without offending anyone. Just take AvX for example, and imagine if Cyclops had been black. As he is, Cyclops is a pretty vanilla character, he doesn't really represent anyone so there's no risk of any stories involving him being taken the wrong way, and the writers are basically free to do anything with him that they wish. If he were black, however, all those scenes of him torturing prisoners and eating human flesh take on a completely different meaning. Now instead of just a regular guy taking a dark turn, AvX is now a story about a strong black authority figure turning into freakin' Idi Amin.
    so you think black people would see him as Idi Amin? this sounds a lot like the risk is white people being offended by the representation of non-white people. witers don't seem at all worried about killing black characters or making them baby killers. they have no problem presenting flamboyant gay males (Rawhide Kid and Freedom Ring). i'm not sure this is as much of a concern, as you might think.
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