View Poll Results: As a minority, does Marvel represent your race well?

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  • Yes

    24 22.64%
  • No

    82 77.36%
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  1. #166
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    1. Does MINORITY representation affect your buying habits?

    No. Entertaining stories with characters I like drive my buying habits. I'm not reading comics for a vicarious power fantasy based on minority identification.


    2. Is your MINORITY well represented in Marvel comics?

    LOL! I'm neither represented well in numbers or portrayal -- I can only think of one character off the top of my head, and her portrayal has been a bit cliched to say the least, and non-existent for most of the last 40 years.


    I'll leave you to the usual complaining about the plight of the only "minority" that "counts" on CBR.

  2. #167
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    Again you have some proclivity towards thinking various ethnic groups are interchangeable. Thus its okay to eliminate segments if replaced with something else.
    That is not Colorblind that is color glaucoma. With the absence of the darker spectrum of light. A convenience of partiality.
    it would enable one to be selectively prejudiced and still hold on to some internal feeling of equality. TOLERANCE and ACCEPTANCE is an ALL or NOTHING endeavor. Either everyone is accepted or its prejudiced.
    When talking about diversity, a team either has a POC or they don't. They have an LGBT person, or they don't. Whether that person is Indian or black, gay or lesbian, it's still diversity. I don't see the characters as interchangeable, but I do see the diversity as interchangeable. I like diverse comics... I'm not bothered about what kind of diversity (because so many characters please me). The example of Forge was merely "yes he killed of a minority but he also resurrected/brought back a minority"; so at-least he's not a writer who only destroys minority characters. If that makes sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    Again MArvel does have a race issue. That is why in their movies they have to race bend ( SEE: NICK FURY. ) or play up female character ( IE give them larger roles in the movies than they have in comics ( SEE: Pepper Pots...Maria Hill...Black Widow).
    I don't agree with these examples. They didn't race change Fury, all the movies seem to be Ultimate versions, where Fury was black. Also, Black Widow has lead the Avengers and has always been a significant character. I don't feel them movies "gave her a larger role" rather than acknowledged she is also a key player. Maria Hill's role in the film was just as significant as the comics, and Pepper Potts has always been Tony's love interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Then he did a piss poor job on his research. I mean really he created 3 brand new white males and maybe 1 Indian character.
    At-least he added an Indian character (though three white males... let's hope one is at-least gay). But yes... it was bad research. As I said, I don't know which is worse: killing a minority out of ignorance they are a minority; or not researching the character you are about to kill to further another character's pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    to answer the ?????. No to kyle he has no powers and is not an x-man. No to psylocke she is yellow face.
    Kyle is a massively significant supporting character though. He's been apart of most arcs in an important way (and probably has had more screen time than some of the "main characters"); but I did put him in (???) because, as you say, he's not a superhero.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 12-18-2012 at 09:03 AM.
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  3. #168
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    U see the fact he did that makes me think all this talk of real character development is BS. Darhawk might require some work research wise but the Runaways and Avengers Academy should not be all that hard.

    Still I like Forge but I cannot buy Cable and X-Force. No way I am supporting that type of BS. Also not a great fan of Hope either seeing what they did to Bishop because of her.
    Last edited by JaggedFel; 12-18-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  4. #169
    Senior Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Where did Hopeless say that he didn't know that Mettle was black?
    Me: Please Marvel, give some spotlight to your 21th century creations instead of killing them every month.
    Marvel: Avengers Arena, lol!
    Classy as always, Marvel.

  5. #170
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    A good question I have heard it on different forums but not sure where it comes from. I would guess twitter or formspring.
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  6. #171
    Senior Member finfangfool's Avatar
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    Perhaps not in the spirit of the thread, but as a skinny, geeky male I find little representation in my comics. Outside the occasional Cypher, Quentin Quire, Amadeus Cho (who's basically a kid), and some of the Runaways kids it's a rare thing to see. Some would argue people want to see idealized representations of the male form, and that's probably true in movies and television (there's a reason the Channing Tatums get bigger roles than the Neil Patrick Harrises), but I have a feeling given how geek-heavy the comic reading population is we'd either be happy with or at least more tolerant in general of seeing skinny, geeky types in our stories. Obviously this applies mostly to superhero comics, and it goes as well for geeky or (especially) chubby or even normal sized women.
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  7. #172
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    U see the fact he did that makes me think all this talk of real character development is BS. Darhawk might require some work research wise but the Runaways and Avengers Academy should not be all that hard.
    I would say "we'll have to see" but I'm not buying Avengers Arena, so I won't ever know, really. His character work in Cable and X-force seems pretty spot on, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Still I like Forge but I cannot buy Cable and X-Force. No way I am supporting that type of BS. Also not a great fan of Hope either seeing what they did to Bishop because of her.
    You mean killing Mettle?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Where did Hopeless say that he didn't know that Mettle was black?
    I was never sure if he was joking or not, it was in a "Michael Moore style video-camera interview" outside Marvel offices. I can't remember who it was with; I'm sure someone else can help with this one.
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  8. #173
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Oh yeah Black Guy dies first. Happens too much when I see that tired trope I just write off the work. Same reason I hate X-men First Class that plus all the females going evil. I mean seriously in comics Darwin oneshots Shaw without even trying.
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  9. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Craptastic examples, as always ... Hogun was always Asian in the comics. Heimdall is the example want to use, though, amidst all this alleged 'ethnic sensitivity' it seems it doesn't apply to Norse culture. Actually, it doesn't apply to anyone but black males, from your posts.

    And the movies didn't race bend Nick Fury. They used the Ultimates COMIC version, who was based off Sam Jackson.

    And why am I not surprised that you'd pick a field that probably has a worse a race (as well as other gender) issue for your example. LOL!
    Ah my bright and shiny light of equality. /rolleyes

    Why Am i not surprised. You'd be satisfied with a robot that thinks its black. Only to tell blacks..see you are represented.
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  10. #175
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    1. Does minority representation affect your buying habits?

    Yes. I buy for the story, the art and most importantly for the character. If a character is all wrapped up in their race/sexuality then I'm probably not going want to read about them. Stories where a gay character is constantly bring up he/she is gay are terrible. Stories where a black/ethnic character is constantly only with other black/ethnic heroes and being shoe-horned into roles that don't fit for him/her due to "representation" are not interesting to me. I do not support the argument that "A good writer can make any character work well". Some characters just aren't that good, even if they are a minority.

    2. Is your minority well represented in comics?

    I think so. No, every character isn't like me, but I don't want them to be. And none of my favorite character are gay male characters. I find it completely hypocritical for people to bitch about wanting representation and then getting mad when it's not to their liking. Why can you only be represented by your race or sexuality? Is that all there is to you? Get over it! Find a character whose pig-headed and identify with them!
    Last edited by Swashbuckler; 12-18-2012 at 09:26 AM.

  11. #176
    Ontological Shaman AnonymousMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    Those are entirely different questions. Frankly, I want to see more characterization, and if you "avoid skin colour" you also avoid the culture and conflicts that character could potentially be dealing with. Thus getting in the way of characterization.

    I'll use a simple example. Falcon. To me, he's an EASY character to write. Think how Hawkeye is right now, but even more grounded. But for a colorblind writer, I bet he would be really difficult.

    Why? Because of his job. His history. To go in-depth with him as a character, you will HAVE to handle socially charged topics, and some of those will have to confront race, class, sexuality, education, and politics. He's an inner-city social worker, a former criminal as well. To explore the character, you would have to do more than just show a flashback. You would have to see how he handles his clients, deals with challenges he faces in the day to day.

    As a social worker, this could mean things like community organizing, to domestic violence, to housing issues, to just trying to help a kid make something of him or herself. That would be where his character shines. Not just beating up Ultimatum or Hydra soldiers.

    That's how Falcon used to be handled, but even then, they only scratched the surface.

    A colorblind writer would be more prone to doing what was done with Static Shock's Nu52 title. Throw a gauntlet of stupid villains, random sub-plots, and just do anything to avoid really dealing with the character. His motivations, drive, inspirations, fears, and prejudices.
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  12. #177
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
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    1. It can make me more interested in a title. I generally care more about diversity for team books rather than solos.

    2. It's okay. There are black female characters within Marvel, but like most black characters in the big 2, existing is easy. If a team needs more diversity we are the token racial minority. Being used well is the hard part, and even when they are used well the fandom ignores or belittles their contributions to the story. Over all though Marvel does better by their black female characters than DC.

    The most prominent black female at Marvel is Storm. Sometimes Storm isn't utilized as well as I would like, nor is she written as constantly as I would like. Also having Storm as the most prominent black female is a double edged sword. I like that she is one of the few black characters that is instantly recognizable. But I can not ignore issues surrounding western beauty standards. Black women are generally the bottom of the totem pole. And the few of us that are universally considered beautiful are either light skinned or have chemically processed hair. I have to wonder if Storm looked like Misty Knight, or if she had a more conventional hair texture for a black woman (but kept the eye and hair color) would be so well known?
    Last edited by Mecegirl; 12-18-2012 at 09:27 AM.

  13. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    1. Does minority representation affect your buying habits?

    Yes. I buy for the story, the art and most importantly for the character. If a character is all wrapped up in their race/sexuality then I'm probably not going want to read about them. Stories where a gay character is constantly bring up he/she is gay are terrible. Stories where a black character is constantly only with other black heroes and being shoe-horned into roles that don't fit for him/her due to "representation" are not interesting to me. I do not support the argument that "A good writer can make any character work well". Some characters just aren't that good, even if they are a minority.

    2. Is your minority well represented in comics?

    I think so. No, every character isn't like me, but I don't want them to be. And none of my favorite character are gay male characters. I find it completely hypocritical for people to bitch about wanting representation and then getting mad when it's not to their liking. Why can you only be represented by your race or sexuality? Is that all there is to you? Get over it! Find a character whose pig-headed and identify with them!
    I want everyone to notice. How somehow wanting a specific group represented as well..is somehow entitlement. And not legitmate.

    If i were to say,,hey gays get over it..comics have women.

    Oh wouldnt i just catch hell.

    but saying that (similarly) to African Americans in lieu of LBGT and other minority characters is okay.
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  14. #179
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finfangfool View Post
    Perhaps not in the spirit of the thread, but as a skinny, geeky male I find little representation in my comics. Outside the occasional Cypher, Quentin Quire, Amadeus Cho (who's basically a kid), and some of the Runaways kids it's a rare thing to see. Some would argue people want to see idealized representations of the male form, and that's probably true in movies and television (there's a reason the Channing Tatums get bigger roles than the Neil Patrick Harrises), but I have a feeling given how geek-heavy the comic reading population is we'd either be happy with or at least more tolerant in general of seeing skinny, geeky types in our stories. Obviously this applies mostly to superhero comics, and it goes as well for geeky or (especially) chubby or even normal sized women.
    The same with "larger ladies". Gert is the only "bigger girl" I know in comics. I don't know why, it's a shame. I like artists who show (in design) a character is visually different. If they are a kid, look like a kid, if they are in a wheel-chair, don't give them massive muscles. We need more geeky kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Oh yeah Black Guy dies first. Happens too much when I see that tired trope I just write off the work.
    I wouldn't write off all his work, just that comic. And as I said, he might not have known he was black (which doesn't make it better, but surely doesn't 'activate' the trope?)

    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Same reason I hate X-men First Class that plus all the females going evil. I mean seriously in comics Darwin oneshots Shaw without even trying.
    Angel sure... but we all knew Mystique was going to "go evil", ditto for Emma Frost. As for Darwin... I'm hoping he'll be back. We'll see.
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  15. #180
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Not to mention all of us minorities by virtue of reading comics have no trouble reading about white hetero males. White Hetero Males on the other hand....well the proof is in the pudding and the constant shouts of forced and PC.
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