Best leader of the X-Men

[Aguja]

Exodus Cloak do you think Emma should get credit for a lot of Cyclops' leadership feats?

[nnelg]

Nope. Fraction went on the record saying he threw in Not!Jean so that folks would think it was awesome foreshadowing.



So Emma Frost was right, once upon a time. Awesome, lol.

Fraction had one of Marvel's best villains( Magneto) bow to Cyclops and turned him in to Cyclops whipping boy. That should have never happened. Just like the turning Cyclops into Magneto. So Fraction's run will always be utter SHIT.

[remydat]

He wasn't a team member, he was noted as a prisoner. And was locked up for the one mission he was on. And it's not whether or not it would of succeeded. It did succeed. The timeline was altered. Out there, there is a beautiful timeline that's down to Emma Frosts stroke of genius.

You clearly have a different interpretation of what a team member is but if you are on a mission with a group of people, you are a team member in my book. But we can agree to disagree on that.

No, there is a beautiful timeline out there due to Emma's and Cyke's stupidity. It is like hitting the lottery. The probability of success is low as hell but someone gets lucky from time to time. There are countless parallel universes so there will always be one where a stupid decision works out. You are trying to argue a hindsight argument ie because the outcome was good it must mean the decision was right. That is a logical fallacy because dumb decisions work out all the time in the real world. It is even more illogical since we know that the outcomes were both good and bad depending on the Universe involved.

The logical way to determine the merits of a decision is to judge based on the circumstances that existed at the time the decision was made. So unless you are going to argue that all the mutant haters logically would stop hating these kids just because they lost their powers then I am sorry, the decision was not a sensible one in my book.

[ExodusCloak]

What was her stroke of genius?

Putting the kids on the bus, which led to a timeline that was an Eden for mutants and prevented Strykers Nimrod dystopian future from coming to pass.

You clearly have a different interpretation of what a team member is but if you are on a mission with a group of people, you are a team member in my book. But we can agree to disagree on that.

No, there is a beautiful timeline out there due to Emma's stupidity. It is like hitting the lottery. The probability of success is low as hell but someone gets lucky from time to time. There are countless parallel universes so there will always be one where a stupid decision works out. You are trying to argue a hindsight argument ie because the outcome was good it must mean the decision was right. That is a logical fallacy because dumb decisions work out all the time in the real world. It is even more illogical since we know that there the outcome was both good and bad depending on the Universe involved.

The logical way to determine the merits of a decision is to judge based on the circumstances that existed at the time the decision was made. So unless you are going to argue that all the mutant haters logically would stop hating these kids just because they lost their powers then I am sorry, the decision was not a sensible one in my book.

He's not even listed as one officially in the handbooks.

The problem with your argument is that, the mutant haters have hindsight in this scenario. The purifiers had no idea who these kids were, they weren't on Nimrods database they were human. The only reason they knew about the bus plan was because Jay Guthrie told them about it.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Fraction had one of Marvel's best villains( Magneto) bow to Cyclops and turned him in to Cyclops whipping boy. That should have never happened. Just like the turning Cyclops into Magneto. So Fraction's run will always be utter SHIT.

Cyclops trolled the Avengers worse than any villain out there. He arguably *is* one of the best villains ever. If anything, mad props to Magneto for figuring it out before everyone else.

So Fraction's run will always be utter SHIT.

A bit harsh, but fair enough. DudebroClops was indeed the worst.

[Hi-Fi]

Putting the kids on the bus, which led to a timeline that was an Eden for mutants and prevented Strykers Nimrod dystopian future from coming to pass.

LOL You might as well say that Wanda's responsible for that when she said "no more mutants". All Emma did was react to something. Hardly a "stroke of genius".

Also, remydat, he was a prisioner. He was in chains and in guarded quarters. He wasn't a member of the team.

[nnelg]

I think Whedon did a great Cyclops.

[Aguja]

Who led the 1.5 team? Moria? She should be included.

[remydat]

The problem with your argument is that, the mutant haters have hindsight in this scenario. The purifiers had no idea who these kids were, they weren't on Nimrods database they were human. The only reason they knew about the bus plan was because Jay Guthrie told them about it.

The image you posted makes clear they were the most dangerous at all because they could integrate into society. That logic is one anyone with half a brain could easily predict the hate groups would have. So the obvious question is why would you send them out in the world unprotected as if there are no means for the enemy to find out who they are. I suppose the school was hidden so that no one could monitor vechicles as they come and go? I suppose it was impossible for any X-man to be captured and tortured to reveal names? I suppose the hate groups have never had access to technology that could potentially assist them in revealing their names?

The point is it was perfectly obvious the enemy would see them as a threat and it is perfectly obvious there are a bunch of means for them to have found out their names. Just because the writers decided to chose one of those means doesn't preclude them from finding out another way. So again, unless there is a logical argument that these kids were not a threat and that their names could have been hidden from the enemy forever, it was dumb. Even if the weren't found on the school bus, once the enemy found out their names another way, they would simply go to their homes and murder them.

[remydat]

LOL You might as well say that Wanda's responsible for that when she said "no more mutants". All Emma did was react to something. Hardly a "stroke of genius".

Also, remydat, he was a prisioner. He was in chains and in guarded quarters. He wasn't a member of the team.

As I said so were Magik and Colussus when they were not on missions. Again, being a prisoner and being a member of the team are not mutually exclusive. He was both.

[ExodusCloak]

The image you posted makes clear they were the most dangerous at all because they could integrate into society. That logic is one anyone with half a brain could easily predict the hate groups would have. So the obvious question is why would you send them out in the world unprotected as if there no means for the enemy to find out who they are. I suppose was hidden so that no one could monitor vechicles as they come and go? I suppose it was impossible for any X-man to be captured and tortured to reveal names? I suppose the hate groups have never had access to technology that could potentially assist them in revealing their names.

The point is it was perfectly obvious the enemy would see them as a threat and it is perfectly obvious there are a bunch of means for them to have found out their names. Just because the writers decided to chose one of those means doesn't preclude them from finding out. So again, unless there is a logical argument that these kids were not a threat and that their names could have been hidden from the enemy forever, it was dumb.

They only started being dangerous once Stryker saw the future and how it came to be. So no.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Emma Frost was right.

Deal with it.

[Flinkman]

I voted for Cyclops, but that's only because Dazzler wasn't an option. I mean, she IS leading the X-Treme team and she DID give 616 Cyclops orders (which he followed) in X-Treme 7.1 this week

[remydat]

They only started being dangerous once Stryker saw the future and how it came to be. So no.

Incorrect. The logic that they could more easily integrate into society and sway public opinion exists whether Stryker saw the future or not. That kind of paranoia is part and parcel to being a hate group. The worst enemy is not the enemey you can see but the enemy that can hide in plain sight.

Emma Frost was right.

Deal with it.

Logic says she wasn't and 40 dead kids agree.

[ExodusCloak]

Incorrect. The logic that they could more easily integrate into society and sway public opinion exists whether Stryker saw the future or not. That kind of paranoia is part and parcel to being a hate group. The worst enemy is not the enemey you can see but the enemy that can hide in plain sight.

Well you're wrong. Cause the evidence is in that timelines existence. Had any of their enemies been clever enough to see that these human kids would bring about this Utopian Future they would have been murdered in that very timeline. And it wouldn't have come to pass. They weren't.