Has DC done more with their villains then Marvel has?

[Mark_S]

Have they? You must not be reading a lot of Marvel comics, because I still see plenty of good villains being used well-Hobgoblin, the Lizard, the Sinister Six, the Wizard, Thanos, Dr. Doom...

I'm thinking mostly the big events but even in the non-big events the main problem is that once the superhero has turned into a supervillain what is the villain to do? He can't compete. He's an also ran. Can you name me one thing that Norman Osborn did in DR that Tony Stark didn't do first in CW? The Red Skull has been trying to destroy Captain America for years and Tony Stark did it in a few months. How can the Skull compare to that? Any supervillain is second rate. Sure Magneto talked about defeating the X-men for years but it was Cap and the Avengers that actually beat them.
Also given the rate of betrayal there is no point in being a villain because the hero will be betrayed by his team mate. How many people switched sides in the big events?

[flottanna]

If we're making lists:

Dr. Doom
Red Skull
MODOK
Dr. Octopus
The Leader
Electro
Kraven
The Vulture
The Sandman
Mysterio
Green Goblin
Hobgoblin
Lizard
Magneto
Juggernaut
Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil
The Frightful Four
Bullseye
Arnim Zola
Mandarin
Loki
Mystique
Sauron
Mr. Sinister
Apocalypse
Taskmaster
Rhino
Kingpin

...all the way down to the Headmen and Stegron the Dinosaur Man.

Not trying to hate on Marvel. Just not the biggest fan of them. I like X-men.

[JSA]

[Zeeguy91]

If we're making lists:

Dr. Doom
Red Skull
MODOK
Dr. Octopus
The Leader
Electro
Kraven
The Vulture
The Sandman
Mysterio
Green Goblin
Hobgoblin
Lizard
Magneto
Juggernaut
Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil
The Frightful Four
Bullseye
Arnim Zola
Mandarin
Loki
Mystique
Sauron
Mr. Sinister
Apocalypse
Taskmaster
Rhino
Kingpin

...all the way down to the Headmen and Stegron the Dinosaur Man.

And if we're gonna to turn this into a competition (like children), then I should play too:

Joker
Black Manta
Lex Luthor
Brainiac
Ocean Master
Darkseid
Mr. Freeze
Sinestro
Poison Ivy
Clayface
Deathstroke
Despero
Ra's al Ghul
Atrocitus
Two-Face
Penguin
Doomsday
Ares
Metallo
Parasite
Backfire
Captain Cold
Gorilla Grodd
Mongul
Riddler
Bane
Black Adam
Reverse Flash
Amazo
Maxwell Lord
The Brain
General Zod

...all the way down to Silver Swan and Animal-Mineral-Vegetable Man.

BTW, how did you not include Ultron or Kang on your list? Those two are definitive Avengers villains.

[tony ingram]

Emma Frost?

Fair point.

And if we're gonna to turn this into a competition (like children), then I should play too:

Joker
Black Manta
Lex Luthor
Brainiac
Ocean Master
Darkseid
Mr. Freeze
Sinestro
Poison Ivy
Clayface
Deathstroke
Despero
Ra's al Ghul
Atrocitus
Two-Face
Penguin
Doomsday
Ares
Metallo
Parasite
Backfire
Captain Cold
Gorilla Grodd
Mongul
Riddler
Bane
Black Adam
Reverse Flash
Amazo
Maxwell Lord
The Brain
General Zod

...all the way down to Silver Swan and Animal-Mineral-Vegetable Man.

BTW, how did you not include Ultron or Kang on your list? Those two are definitive Avengers villains.

I know. I'm not sure how I missed them. Particularly since Kang is a favourite of mine. Still, I'd rank any villain on my list higher than Atrocitus, and Stegron could definitely take Animal-Vegetable-Mineral Man any day.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

The MU villains need to unionize.

They tried it during Dark Reign. Seriously, how are we having this discussion as if Dark Reign wasn't just two years ago?

[timeismoney]

I'm thinking mostly the big events but even in the non-big events the main problem is that once the superhero has turned into a supervillain what is the villain to do? He can't compete. He's an also ran. Can you name me one thing that Norman Osborn did in DR that Tony Stark didn't do first in CW? The Red Skull has been trying to destroy Captain America for years and Tony Stark did it in a few months. How can the Skull compare to that? Any supervillain is second rate. Sure Magneto talked about defeating the X-men for years but it was Cap and the Avengers that actually beat them.
Also given the rate of betrayal there is no point in being a villain because the hero will be betrayed by his team mate. How many people switched sides in the big events?

You don't have an understanding of what a villain is in the MU, cause first Tony and Red Skull is nothing a like.

And Cap gave up do CW it had nothing to do with Tony, Tony didn't kill Cap las i check that was Sin and Cross Bone. You know two Villains.

And last Cap in the Avengers didn't beat the X-Men because by the time it was over it was the. Avengers and X-Men VS PF Scott and Emma.

I know you been having a fit about Marvel Villains but, if you're going to post use facts.

[timeismoney]

They tried it during Dark Reign. Seriously, how are we having this discussion as if Dark Reign wasn't just two years ago?

They enjoy complaining about Marvel for some reason on the DC forums.

[R0NIN]

DC has better villains because of The Joker.

Except everyone knows Dr. Doom rules all. BOW BEFORE DOOM!!!!

[R0NIN]

Doom is the greatest villain in comics IMO, although Silver/Bronze Age Luthor is close and may have influenced some of Doom's development. Marvel has better physical villains because they had Kirby writing action scenes. DC's villains were more science-fiction based because they had guys like Fox and Broome who were into science and could pull that stuff off. Today's writers are mostly idiots and only use science in a deconstructive manner to make fun of superhero comics. You can't actually learn anything scientific from a modern superhero comic since their idea of an action scene is tearing someone in half or whatever.

Wow I agree with Kurosawa again.

[R0NIN]

And if we're gonna to turn this into a competition (like children), then I should play too:

Joker
Black Manta
Lex Luthor
Brainiac
Ocean Master
Darkseid
Mr. Freeze
Sinestro
Poison Ivy
Clayface
Deathstroke
Despero
Ra's al Ghul
Atrocitus
Two-Face
Penguin
Doomsday
Ares
Metallo
Parasite
Backfire
Captain Cold
Gorilla Grodd
Mongul
Riddler
Bane
Black Adam
Reverse Flash
Amazo
Maxwell Lord
The Brain
General Zod

...all the way down to Silver Swan and Animal-Mineral-Vegetable Man.

BTW, how did you not include Ultron or Kang on your list? Those two are definitive Avengers villains.

I think Marvel takes this own especially once you take out Batman's villains. If I had to give best rogue's to one character it would without a doubt be Batman. But universe.....?

Ok I'm just including actually cool/good villains (imo of course).

Dr. Doom
Kang
Ultron
Thanos
Annihilus
Ronan the Accuser
Super-Skrull
Mephisto
Magneto
Apocalypse
Stryfe
Kingpin
Bullseye
Typhoid Mary
Purple Man
The Hand
The Hood
Norman Osborn (he's like a Lex AND a Joker)
The Sinister Six (both single and together notice I haven't included EVERY member as Vulture just isn't that good a villain)
-Doc Ock
-Electro
-Kraven
-Sandman
-Mysterio
-Venom
-Lizard
-Tombstone
Master of Evil (same deal as Sinister Six)
-Baron Zemo
-Enchantress
-Executioner
-Radioactive Man
-Klaw
-Whirlwind
-Grey Gargoyle
Wrecking Crew (as a team)
Red Skull
Count Nefaria
MODOK
AIM
Hydra
Strucker
Absorbing Man
Loki
Mangog
Surtur
Mandarin
Dormamu
Steel Serpent
Cyber
Gorgon
Mystique
Taskmaster
Sabertooth

I'm sure there is more I can't think of.

[Fate's Faith]

The problem for me with Marvel's villains is their heroes are better villains. And frequently are.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

52 my good friend you point out what I like most about Marvel. And that is you can't tell who's the hero and who's the villain. Because I like that everything is not always black and white in the MU but. There are shades of grey, because as we know, sometimes good people do bad things and bad people do good things.

Don't worry. Disney will fix that right up for ya.

[tony ingram]

They enjoy complaining about Marvel for some reason on the DC forums.

Yes, it's like some kind of primitive tribal thing. "My faceless corporation that doesn't give a crap about me is better than your faceless corporation that doesn't give a crap about you, because I need to feel superior to someone".

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I think that a number of former A-list villaisn have fallen behind:

Penguin
Riddler
Mr. Mxyzptlk
Bane
Dr. Polaris
Dr. Light
Kanjar Ro
Amos Fortune
Brainstorm
Prankster

I included guys who took the entire league on their own and now they are jokes. Some of them are very recurring, like the Penguin, but they are not the level of threat they were at their peak. Killer Croc has gone down on a spiral since he was introduced, the guy started conquering the underworld of Gotham and now he's is almost a murderous version of a character from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

There are also some B-listers that became D-listers like Killer Moth, Cavalier or the Tweeds. I just think they need a little m.o. revamp, they need their costumes to be toned down and to be taken back to their basics, an anti-Batman, a thief with a sword and con men. With the Rogues gallery, Geoff Johns (of all people) demonstrated that villains don't have to be vicious murderers to present a challenge.