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  1. #46
    The curious one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Have they? You must not be reading a lot of Marvel comics, because I still see plenty of good villains being used well-Hobgoblin, the Lizard, the Sinister Six, the Wizard, Thanos, Dr. Doom...
    I'm thinking mostly the big events but even in the non-big events the main problem is that once the superhero has turned into a supervillain what is the villain to do? He can't compete. He's an also ran. Can you name me one thing that Norman Osborn did in DR that Tony Stark didn't do first in CW? The Red Skull has been trying to destroy Captain America for years and Tony Stark did it in a few months. How can the Skull compare to that? Any supervillain is second rate. Sure Magneto talked about defeating the X-men for years but it was Cap and the Avengers that actually beat them.
    Also given the rate of betrayal there is no point in being a villain because the hero will be betrayed by his team mate. How many people switched sides in the big events?
    Last edited by Mark_S; 12-13-2012 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #47
    Junior Member flottanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    If we're making lists:

    Dr. Doom
    Red Skull
    MODOK
    Dr. Octopus
    The Leader
    Electro
    Kraven
    The Vulture
    The Sandman
    Mysterio
    Green Goblin
    Hobgoblin
    Lizard
    Magneto
    Juggernaut
    Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil
    The Frightful Four
    Bullseye
    Arnim Zola
    Mandarin
    Loki
    Mystique
    Sauron
    Mr. Sinister
    Apocalypse
    Taskmaster
    Rhino
    Kingpin

    ...all the way down to the Headmen and Stegron the Dinosaur Man.

    Not trying to hate on Marvel. Just not the biggest fan of them. I like X-men.

  3. #48
    Junior Member JSA's Avatar
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    If we're making lists:

    Dr. Doom
    Red Skull
    MODOK
    Dr. Octopus
    The Leader
    Electro
    Kraven
    The Vulture
    The Sandman
    Mysterio
    Green Goblin
    Hobgoblin
    Lizard
    Magneto
    Juggernaut
    Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil
    The Frightful Four
    Bullseye
    Arnim Zola
    Mandarin
    Loki
    Mystique
    Sauron
    Mr. Sinister
    Apocalypse
    Taskmaster
    Rhino
    Kingpin

    ...all the way down to the Headmen and Stegron the Dinosaur Man.
    And if we're gonna to turn this into a competition (like children), then I should play too:

    Joker
    Black Manta
    Lex Luthor
    Brainiac
    Ocean Master
    Darkseid
    Mr. Freeze
    Sinestro
    Poison Ivy
    Clayface
    Deathstroke
    Despero
    Ra's al Ghul
    Atrocitus
    Two-Face
    Penguin
    Doomsday
    Ares
    Metallo
    Parasite
    Backfire
    Captain Cold
    Gorilla Grodd
    Mongul
    Riddler
    Bane
    Black Adam
    Reverse Flash
    Amazo
    Maxwell Lord
    The Brain
    General Zod

    ...all the way down to Silver Swan and Animal-Mineral-Vegetable Man.

    BTW, how did you not include Ultron or Kang on your list? Those two are definitive Avengers villains.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 12-14-2012 at 04:16 AM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    Emma Frost?
    Fair point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    And if we're gonna to turn this into a competition (like children), then I should play too:

    Joker
    Black Manta
    Lex Luthor
    Brainiac
    Ocean Master
    Darkseid
    Mr. Freeze
    Sinestro
    Poison Ivy
    Clayface
    Deathstroke
    Despero
    Ra's al Ghul
    Atrocitus
    Two-Face
    Penguin
    Doomsday
    Ares
    Metallo
    Parasite
    Backfire
    Captain Cold
    Gorilla Grodd
    Mongul
    Riddler
    Bane
    Black Adam
    Reverse Flash
    Amazo
    Maxwell Lord
    The Brain
    General Zod

    ...all the way down to Silver Swan and Animal-Mineral-Vegetable Man.

    BTW, how did you not include Ultron or Kang on your list? Those two are definitive Avengers villains.
    I know. I'm not sure how I missed them. Particularly since Kang is a favourite of mine. Still, I'd rank any villain on my list higher than Atrocitus, and Stegron could definitely take Animal-Vegetable-Mineral Man any day.

  6. #51
    Elder Member BrotherUnitNo_4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIFTY-TWO (52) View Post
    The MU villains need to unionize.
    They tried it during Dark Reign. Seriously, how are we having this discussion as if Dark Reign wasn't just two years ago?
    Currently reading She-Hulk, Deadpool, Swamp Thing, Ms. Marvel

    Probation: Ghost Rider, Loki: LoA, Secret Avengers

    Looking forward to All-New Ultimates, Flash Gordon and Doctor Mirage.

  7. #52
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    I'm thinking mostly the big events but even in the non-big events the main problem is that once the superhero has turned into a supervillain what is the villain to do? He can't compete. He's an also ran. Can you name me one thing that Norman Osborn did in DR that Tony Stark didn't do first in CW? The Red Skull has been trying to destroy Captain America for years and Tony Stark did it in a few months. How can the Skull compare to that? Any supervillain is second rate. Sure Magneto talked about defeating the X-men for years but it was Cap and the Avengers that actually beat them.
    Also given the rate of betrayal there is no point in being a villain because the hero will be betrayed by his team mate. How many people switched sides in the big events?
    You don't have an understanding of what a villain is in the MU, cause first Tony and Red Skull is nothing a like.

    And Cap gave up do CW it had nothing to do with Tony, Tony didn't kill Cap las i check that was Sin and Cross Bone. You know two Villains.

    And last Cap in the Avengers didn't beat the X-Men because by the time it was over it was the. Avengers and X-Men VS PF Scott and Emma.

    I know you been having a fit about Marvel Villains but, if you're going to post use facts.
    Animals sense weakness, sharks smell blood in water
    Ishmael, Moses and Job, knew the divine order.

  8. #53
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherUnitNo_4 View Post
    They tried it during Dark Reign. Seriously, how are we having this discussion as if Dark Reign wasn't just two years ago?
    They enjoy complaining about Marvel for some reason on the DC forums.
    Animals sense weakness, sharks smell blood in water
    Ishmael, Moses and Job, knew the divine order.

  9. #54
    Swordsman Supreme R0NIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild_Child View Post
    DC has better villains because of The Joker.
    Except everyone knows Dr. Doom rules all. BOW BEFORE DOOM!!!!
    I like swords.

  10. #55
    Swordsman Supreme R0NIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    Doom is the greatest villain in comics IMO, although Silver/Bronze Age Luthor is close and may have influenced some of Doom's development. Marvel has better physical villains because they had Kirby writing action scenes. DC's villains were more science-fiction based because they had guys like Fox and Broome who were into science and could pull that stuff off. Today's writers are mostly idiots and only use science in a deconstructive manner to make fun of superhero comics. You can't actually learn anything scientific from a modern superhero comic since their idea of an action scene is tearing someone in half or whatever.
    Wow I agree with Kurosawa again.
    I like swords.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    And if we're gonna to turn this into a competition (like children), then I should play too:

    Joker
    Black Manta
    Lex Luthor
    Brainiac
    Ocean Master
    Darkseid
    Mr. Freeze
    Sinestro
    Poison Ivy
    Clayface
    Deathstroke
    Despero
    Ra's al Ghul
    Atrocitus
    Two-Face
    Penguin
    Doomsday
    Ares
    Metallo
    Parasite
    Backfire
    Captain Cold
    Gorilla Grodd
    Mongul
    Riddler
    Bane
    Black Adam
    Reverse Flash
    Amazo
    Maxwell Lord
    The Brain
    General Zod

    ...all the way down to Silver Swan and Animal-Mineral-Vegetable Man.

    BTW, how did you not include Ultron or Kang on your list? Those two are definitive Avengers villains.
    I think Marvel takes this own especially once you take out Batman's villains. If I had to give best rogue's to one character it would without a doubt be Batman. But universe.....?

    Ok I'm just including actually cool/good villains (imo of course).

    Dr. Doom
    Kang
    Ultron
    Thanos
    Annihilus
    Ronan the Accuser
    Super-Skrull
    Mephisto
    Magneto
    Apocalypse
    Stryfe
    Kingpin
    Bullseye
    Typhoid Mary
    Purple Man
    The Hand
    The Hood
    Norman Osborn (he's like a Lex AND a Joker)
    The Sinister Six (both single and together notice I haven't included EVERY member as Vulture just isn't that good a villain)
    -Doc Ock
    -Electro
    -Kraven
    -Sandman
    -Mysterio
    -Venom
    -Lizard
    -Tombstone
    Master of Evil (same deal as Sinister Six)
    -Baron Zemo
    -Enchantress
    -Executioner
    -Radioactive Man
    -Klaw
    -Whirlwind
    -Grey Gargoyle
    Wrecking Crew (as a team)
    Red Skull
    Count Nefaria
    MODOK
    AIM
    Hydra
    Strucker
    Absorbing Man
    Loki
    Mangog
    Surtur
    Mandarin
    Dormamu
    Steel Serpent
    Cyber
    Gorgon
    Mystique
    Taskmaster
    Sabertooth

    I'm sure there is more I can't think of.
    I like swords.

  12. #57
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    The problem for me with Marvel's villains is their heroes are better villains. And frequently are.

  13. #58
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    52 my good friend you point out what I like most about Marvel. And that is you can't tell who's the hero and who's the villain. Because I like that everything is not always black and white in the MU but. There are shades of grey, because as we know, sometimes good people do bad things and bad people do good things.
    Don't worry. Disney will fix that right up for ya.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

    Oscar Wilde

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    They enjoy complaining about Marvel for some reason on the DC forums.
    Yes, it's like some kind of primitive tribal thing. "My faceless corporation that doesn't give a crap about me is better than your faceless corporation that doesn't give a crap about you, because I need to feel superior to someone".

  15. #60

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    I think that a number of former A-list villaisn have fallen behind:

    Penguin
    Riddler
    Mr. Mxyzptlk
    Bane
    Dr. Polaris
    Dr. Light
    Kanjar Ro
    Amos Fortune
    Brainstorm
    Prankster

    I included guys who took the entire league on their own and now they are jokes. Some of them are very recurring, like the Penguin, but they are not the level of threat they were at their peak. Killer Croc has gone down on a spiral since he was introduced, the guy started conquering the underworld of Gotham and now he's is almost a murderous version of a character from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

    There are also some B-listers that became D-listers like Killer Moth, Cavalier or the Tweeds. I just think they need a little m.o. revamp, they need their costumes to be toned down and to be taken back to their basics, an anti-Batman, a thief with a sword and con men. With the Rogues gallery, Geoff Johns (of all people) demonstrated that villains don't have to be vicious murderers to present a challenge.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

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