Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 222
  1. #61

    Default

    Actually its been more so the bad reviews pointing out the pluses and minuses and the good reviews going death, character progression, no one cares about the characters.

    The book had several flaws for a #1 issue of a controversial topic on a teen book as well.

    I still haven't seen many people point out these errors. Some pretty big mischaracterizations, lack of personality of the new kids(Gage/Aaron/Hickman/Remender all gave us a feel for every character, whether new or obscure in the first line from the character.) And a lack of mentioning an encounter between the Academy and Arcade which would make anybody go how did he get this powerful?

    And the book was really light on the dialogue. Read it in the store in five minutes. No joke. Felt like more dialogue could of been interjected into the new kids to help flesh them out more.

    Just feels bland overall. Plus the death was way too cliche. Kill the man of dark skin who happened to be in a relationship. Why not kill Chase first? That would of been shocking. And an OMG moment.
    Currently Reading:
    Avengers, UXM, UA, NA, YA, AA, SSM, Hawkguy, Fearless Defenders,WaTXM, ANXM

  2. #62
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    883

    Default

    All the positive reviews honestly point out more and more that Hopeless failed in his intentions. Compare the responses in the letter column (especially on whether the deaths have meaning) to how the positive reviews treat the story. The intention was for drama and pathos, the reviewers point out that it's a shlocky romp. He failed in his intent.

    There's a lot of other things, but that alone is pretty damning.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  3. #63
    Faiza Fanboy Guest_1001's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonspider89 View Post
    Actually its been more so the bad reviews pointing out the pluses and minuses and the good reviews going death, character progression, no one cares about the characters.

    The book had several flaws for a #1 issue of a controversial topic on a teen book as well.

    I still haven't seen many people point out these errors. Some pretty big mischaracterizations, lack of personality of the new kids(Gage/Aaron/Hickman/Remender all gave us a feel for every character, whether new or obscure in the first line from the character.) And a lack of mentioning an encounter between the Academy and Arcade which would make anybody go how did he get this powerful?
    It's early days, with the first issue focusing on Arcade and the reasons the kids were there while also managing to throw in some action. It's laying the groundwork and, as "laying the groundwork" issues go, it did a great job. I was hooked. Saying "why don't these kids have more personality!?" when there wasn't room for more than one line out of some of them is an unrealistic expectation. Same goes for finding out why Arcade is suddenly all-powerful. It's the first issue! Complaining about not having all the answers or under-developed characters in the first issue is like seeing a murder-mystery movie and then leaving in ten minutes because you don't know who the killer is or their motives for committing the murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majin Gojira View Post
    Compare the responses in the letter column (especially on whether the deaths have meaning) to how the positive reviews treat the story.
    First. Issue. The first death happened at the end of the issue. How do you know the death isn't meaningful without seeing the fallout?
    --*--
    Bring Back MI:13

    We need more Black Knight and Faiza Hussain!

  4. #64
    Elder Member BrotherUnitNo_4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    MARYLAND
    Posts
    13,149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest_1001 View Post
    It's early days, with the first issue focusing on Arcade and the reasons the kids were there while also managing to throw in some action. It's laying the groundwork and, as "laying the groundwork" issues go, it did a great job. I was hooked. Saying "why don't these kids have more personality!?" when there wasn't room for more than one line out of some of them is an unrealistic expectation. Same goes for finding out why Arcade is suddenly all-powerful. It's the first issue! Complaining about not having all the answers or under-developed characters in the first issue is like seeing a murder-mystery movie and then leaving in ten minutes because you don't know who the killer is or their motives for committing the murder.
    Well said.
    Currently reading She-Hulk, Deadpool, Swamp Thing, Ms. Marvel

    Probation: Ghost Rider, Loki: LoA, Secret Avengers

    Looking forward to All-New Ultimates, Flash Gordon and Doctor Mirage.

  5. #65
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    14,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherUnitNo_4 View Post
    Well said.
    Not well said, at all. The first issue of a series should never be the equivalent of the first 10 minutes of a movie. EVER!
    COEXIST | NOEXIST

    ShadowcatMagikДаякѕтая Sto☈mDustMercury MonetRachelCipher
    MagnetoNightcrawlerColossusRockslideBeastXavier

  6. #66
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    883

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest_1001 View Post
    It's early days, with the first issue focusing on Arcade and the reasons the kids were there while also managing to throw in some action.
    And that was a mistake, IMO. Arcade should NOT be the focus of this, not until near the end. I found the action scenes were uninspired as well. I'm a Godzilla fan, so I'm used to seeing implacable foes, but here it was not dynamic enough nor did it appeal to the base instincts as well (as giant lizards smashing things tend to do). Here, it was just dull.

    To quote Cicero, on witnessing a similar spectacle in the Roman Amphitheater.

    What pleasure can there be for a civilized man when either some powerless man is ripped to shreds by a powerful beast or some magnificent animal is transfixed by a spear. But if this show must be viewed, we saw nothing new.
    When someone dies, the issue should focus at least mostly on them rather than the person who kills them. Compare Mettle's death to the 'death' of Pip the Troll in recently in X-Factor. He was better next issue, but that issue where he died was a tribute to him, not his killers. The act of killing him alone was enough to establish them as a threat because of how well it was set up.

    Arena's kill was redundant and worst of all, boring.

    It's laying the groundwork and, as "laying the groundwork" issues go, it did a great job.
    We don't know the rules of the game yet.

    The motivation for the game is literally "Because Arcade said so", which is poor reasoning. Hunger Games and BR gave more compelling reasons.

    Those are some very basic things one has to establish in such a scenario--and they are not yet established. Again, those first 4 pages were designed to entice, but ultimately made the story harder to set up.

    I was hooked. Saying "why don't these kids have more personality!?" when there wasn't room for more than one line out of some of them is an unrealistic expectation.
    No, that a sign of poor pacing. The idea is to hook people certainly, but the hooks were poorly cast. One line from each, a proper look at the faces of all of them as they REACT to it! That's all I'd ask for! We didn't get that. Instead we get a flash forward and Arcade ballyhoo. We get some of that, certainly, and with a cast off 16 it is hard to balance it, but this simply failed for all of them.

    You're free to like it of course, just like I'm free to like "Attack of the Crab Monsters". Doesn't make either good.

    Same goes for finding out why Arcade is suddenly all-powerful.
    Why isn't so much the issue, IMO. It's the necessity to do that at all which is the grating factor.

    It's the first issue! Complaining about not having all the answers or under-developed characters in the first issue is like seeing a murder-mystery movie and then leaving in ten minutes because you don't know who the killer is or their motives for committing the murder.
    I'm more of a film buff than a comics person, but I compare the first issue with the first 10-20 minutes of a movie. My standard is the opening of Serenity and The Incredibles. The former in particular gave everyone a chance to establish themselves.

    This didn't.

    And those that it did focus on were poorly represented from their prior appearances, sometimes laughably so.

    This isn't like a murder mystery at all. Some questions I'm glad have not been answered yet at this point (IE: the how Arcade captured them all beyond vagueries), but these aren't compelling questions that make me want to find out more. These are questions that take me out of the story and break suspension of disbelief.

    First. Issue. The first death happened at the end of the issue. How do you know the death isn't meaningful without seeing the fallout?
    See the X-Factor Example. Also, the published previews for #2 show that focus immediately shifts to a totally unrelated character, hinting that the thread will be dropped for a while. They may show the fallout, but to shift focus in that manner after doing that? Yeah, that's not a good sign.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  7. #67
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    883

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Not well said, at all. The first issue of a series should never be the equivalent of the first 10 minutes of a movie. EVER!
    I disagree, but then again, I think that as the first 10 minutes of a movie it failed utterly.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  8. #68
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Savage Land
    Posts
    5,460

    Default

    I can't really decide how i feel about this book completely, but i didn't care for Mettle's death at all which i guess is a good thing? but it felt too cheap and random.

    But then again if he killed off some of the ones who i haven't read about it i probably wouldn't care at all, but i would think it was taking the easy way out by killing off the more obscure characters who at least to me seem to have come out of the blue.

  9. #69
    New Member gveret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tel Aviv
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey Brown View Post
    Yeah, lets not act like it's really just because they're killing off my favorite z list characters.
    Man, could you please stop berating people for caring about unpopular characters? What is this, junior prom?

  10. #70
    The Slender Man vampiric_cannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,686

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Not well said, at all. The first issue of a series should never be the equivalent of the first 10 minutes of a movie. EVER!
    The purpose of both is to hook you for the rest, not to develop characters, but to establish them. Or not, and just kinda hope you'll stick around because Samuel L Jackson is in the movie. See: Pulp Fiction.

    So, of late, after reading Arena #1, I've read a smattering of Academy issues. And am I wrong in saying of the original bunch in Arena, that Mettle is the single least developed and liked character? And the Fear Itself tie ins sucked, so Arena already has an advantage. Academy's strength was its characters, many of them were interesting and sympathetic. Now they'll be put to better use. Most the weaker characters aren't in Arena.

    Still can't work out why Academy fans loathe Arena. They argue like it is personal and emotional, which takes credence away from their presented arguments. It reminds me of debating girls. Guy/guy debates are pretty logical and straightforward unless someone is taking the piss. Guy/girl debates usually have the dudes trying to work out what the hell the girls are implying and how their points are valid. Girl/girl has them both on the same wavelength, so you get a ridiculous argument completely unrelated to the moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by gveret View Post
    Man, could you please stop berating people for caring about unpopular characters? What is this, junior prom?
    Its not because they're unpopular, it is merely because that is the entire reason. The issue is good, and the premise more original than most of Marvel's books. 'Black Ops squad of killers!' - shit, am I reading Thunderbolts, X-Force, the other X-Force, maybe even ordinary X-Men, Secret Avengers...
    Last edited by vampiric_cannibal; 12-16-2012 at 12:08 PM.
    I would like to say for the record that this is the FIRST TIME I've withheld dong when someone was so desperately asking for some.
    Brian C Wood

  11. #71
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Savage Land
    Posts
    5,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gveret View Post
    Man, could you please stop berating people for caring about unpopular characters? What is this, junior prom?
    Some people like the unpopular characters just to be different.

  12. #72
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    883

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vampiric_cannibal View Post
    Still can't work out why Academy fans loathe Arena. <Snip> Its not because they're unpopular, it is merely because that is the entire reason. The issue is good, and the premise more original than most of Marvel's books. 'Black Ops squad of killers!' - shit, am I reading Thunderbolts, X-Force, the other X-Force, maybe even ordinary X-Men, Secret Avengers...
    I disagree with your assessment of the issue, but you sort of answer your own question. These are the best and brightest from their respective series, and now (perceptively) they are being tossed aside and killed off, possibly never to be revived, for a purpose that appears to meta-narrative-ly be allowing Arcade to rise from his own C-List status. Literally sacrificing the future to revitalize the past. That in and of itself is a pretty repulsive idea. Ironically, it's also one of the metaphoric things that Hunger Games touched on IIRC.

    That is what they see. Many don't see it as "Hey, this could be a great story testing the limits of the characters morality!" they see "So, you don't like the really popular stuff? You are now being punished for it!"

    I don't see it quite like the later, but the former is definitely present.

    Also, I wouldn't dismiss an emotional plea in this case as narratives prey upon emotional logic (yes, that's a thing). The characters managed to create strong ties with some audience members which is what they are supposed to do. However, the ties are far too strong for the core premise of this sort of story to justify. It's sort of like throwing the cast of the original Star Trek into this scenario and cutting down many a classic character, likely for keeps. Fans would be livid if that occurred, but because the Academy, Runaways, etc. audience is so small, that gets dismissed for some reason as being less valid.

    Given it's a knowing copy of other stuff, I really wouldn't call it "more original". That's sort of silly. It's like calling "Pacific Rim" original when it's a love letter to giant monsters and robot movies/show.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  13. #73

    Default

    Yeah you know I am expecting unrealistic expectations from Hope. It isn't like Aaron/Remender/Hickman/Gage established unknown or new character's personality within the first issue. :/

    And Mettle/Hazmat was nothing like themselves is another HUGE complaint from fans of the characters. Only act that was like Mettle was the fact he sacrificed himself for Hazmat.

    I had no problem with the death scene but with what lead up to the death scene. In the one line from the new characters, he should of injected some type of personality. Which he didn't. They all felt bland and one dimensional.

    And he forgot that Mettle/Hazmat/Reptil already embarrassed Arcade which could be used as a further plot moment of how did Arcade get so strong. These issues are some pretty big issues for the book that people are ignoring. Arcade acted like he didn't even know Hazmat and Mettle and Reptil.

    Then the new characters. Who come off as bland. And so much Arcade instead of giving some of his newly created characters a couple more lines to help establish there personalities. Feels like he is trying to decompress the book as much as possible.
    Currently Reading:
    Avengers, UXM, UA, NA, YA, AA, SSM, Hawkguy, Fearless Defenders,WaTXM, ANXM

  14. #74
    The Slender Man vampiric_cannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,686

    Default

    The new characters were not focused on. Hopeless gave more personality to Mettle and Hazmat in 20 pages than 40 issues of Academy, where they were really quite shallow. I liked them much more. Hopeless doesn't do introducing everyone at once, not properly. That people are there and what they're called is what we know. We've only had a few glimpses thus far. Its only issue one, where we got an introduction and story. I would not give those things up for introducing every single character. Harry Potter didn't have Ron or Hermione for a couple of chapters. Lord of the Flies introduced two characters and established them before anyone else appeared. American Idol doesn't start with the finalists. It puts them in between the hook, of people embarrassing themselves.

    Just about all the criticism is for the sake of criticizing.
    If this was a graphic novel, of 250 pages, no one reading it would later say "damn, if only the first 20 pages of the first act had stretched its page space to introduce just everyone, to no end."
    I would like to say for the record that this is the FIRST TIME I've withheld dong when someone was so desperately asking for some.
    Brian C Wood

  15. #75
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,526

    Default

    He changed Mettle's personality. Reptil is his best friend and he only cares about Hazmat? BS.
    Hazmat always a hater. No she is hater because her powers suck not because she has always been a hater.
    Reptil has defeated Arcade before not mentioned again BS. I mean seriously there is suppose to be continuity.
    X-23 stops fighting when things look tough? Lol.
    Was Nico even trying spellcasting? Seriously she is got a staff that has struck fear into the hearts of Hell Lords and yet cannot do anything to Arcade?

    That is not even counting Hopeless going for the good old lets kill the black guy first option.

    And yeah new characters not exactly developed but I am not really going to hold that against him.

    Its like the guy did no research which is probably true.
    Last edited by JaggedFel; 12-16-2012 at 03:24 PM.
    Black History Month & 29 Days in February

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •