And so the anti-Superman clowns come out from under there rocks

[Kurosawa]

Just be prepared. As this movie gets more attention, the haters and the naysayers will be coming out of the woodwork.

Whether it be brand new trolls, or visitors from the Marvel forums, that somehow aren't secure with their stable of shared-universe movies -- they will come.

Marvel fans should have no reason to feel challenged by this movie or any movie. Their series are critical and commercial triumphs, and it's all based in the fact that their studio and their leaders are proud of their characters and history. Marvel revels in being Marvel. I wish the brass at DC had their pride.

[Kurosawa]

I've read all of Maggin's work, thank you. I've posted many quotes from Miracle Monday, Last Son of Krypton, and Luthor's Gift on my blog. This one is one of my favorites:

"In fact, Superman loved Clark Kent as much as he loved anyone or anything else. He loved his alter ego as he loved the memory of the two good people who had taken him as their son; as he loved this adopted world that had accepted him as its hero; as he loved Lois Lane. Clark Kent was a person as real and individual as any man ever created by the mind of man. […] Clark Kent spent more time walking the Earth than Superman spent flying above it."

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't lecture me on what Superman is all about. I'm done.

How then can you have read his work and accept them making Superman into something that is the opposite of it? Or Jonathan Kent for that matter? Surely you remember the "Graduation" chapter of Miracle Monday? Doesn't the prospect of Superman learning his morals in spite of Jonathan Kent instead of from him bother you? It bothers me, it bothers me a lot. I didn't like it when Waid did it in Birthright and I don't like it here.

[AJBopp]

That's just it, though. Most people don't have a clear idea of what Superman is "known to be." What they know is vague at best, and for many that knowledge makes him unappealing. Man of Steel is introducing the character in a grounded way that will connect with people because, despite his insecurities and struggles, he's ultimately a good person who will never be content with not helping people.

Everyone understands the core of who and what Superman is. There is, at heart, actually very little disagreement about this.

Dan Slott like to to point to Batman's colorful history and state that when the Dark Knight Detective was battling robots and space aliens, he spoke to a specific audience who maintain that that is "their" Batman. This is very true. But the thing is, those of us who were reading those stories understood - at the time - that those stories did not represent the core of who and what Batman is. Some of us enjoyed those stories, some of us rolled our eyes at them, but we understand that they weren't what Batman is really about.

People in general get Superman and there is quite a lot of general agreement on what the important characteristics of him are. Most people still understand him, for instance, to be a champion for truth and justice. There is less agreement now on the American way, but not because of vagueness about the character. It's because there is vagueness about what the American way is, and we've known since the 70s that the American way isn't always something worthy of championing.

I don't think modern audiences are that naive or think that deeply about this issue. All that matters is that they were engrossed in the story enough that they cared about the characters and came away from the theater wanting to experience more things related to Superman. If that leads them to exploring other incarnations and takes on the character, well that's even better.

I think we're generally saying the same thing. I agree they don't think that deeply on this issue. Most people have more important things to think about. :) They understand these things, though, without having to think deeply about them. It's exactly why Superman is a classic character and transcends the revisions. When something is "off," they may still enjoy the story, but they will understand too that it's off.

There is nothing released from the film that indicates the core of Superman's character has been unrecognizably altered.

The entire tone of the trailer is dark, brooding and sullen. None of these characteristics are associated with Superman, or with a story about Superman. I'm not saying Superman is never serious, but the entire emotional impact of almost every scene we've been shown is not one that is generally associated with the Man Of Steel. Many people will enjoy this take anyway, but it's not likely to change their conviction that it isn't "really" Superman, even as we weren't fooled into thinking that Batman: Robot Fighter was really Batman.

[AJBopp]

Marvel fans should have no reason to feel challenged by this movie or any movie. Their series are critical and commercial triumphs, and it's all based in the fact that their studio and their leaders are proud of their characters and history. Marvel revels in being Marvel. I wish the brass at DC had their pride.

The studios get what make Marvel characters great. The comics arm seems much less certain of this.

[Coal Tiger]

Marvel fans should have no reason to feel challenged by this movie or any movie. Their series are critical and commercial triumphs, and it's all based in the fact that their studio and their leaders are proud of their characters and history. Marvel revels in being Marvel. I wish the brass at DC had their pride.

They're fairly different situations. Marvel owns a movie studio, DC is owned by one.

[Sacred Knight]

Brooding and sullen I'll give you in the scenes of Clark's lone journey to find out about his alien heritage (a similar trope played upon in the original movie; Clark is brooding and sullen from Jonathan's death up until the creation of the Fortress). But that won't last. The trailer pretty much shows us that, as its no coincidence that the music and overall tone of the trailer changes and becomes more upbeat and inspirational when he becomes Superman.

Where you're getting dark on the other hand, I still have no idea.

[Francisco]

How then can you have read his work and accept them making Superman into something that is the opposite of it? Or Jonathan Kent for that matter? Surely you remember the "Graduation" chapter of Miracle Monday? Doesn't the prospect of Superman learning his morals in spite of Jonathan Kent instead of from him bother you? It bothers me, it bothers me a lot. I didn't like it when Waid did it in Birthright and I don't like it here.

And now that we know you don't like it, you can go away. Thanks and bye bye.

[Francisco]

Brooding and sullen I'll give you in the scenes of Clark's lone journey to find out about his alien heritage (a similar trope played upon in the original movie; Clark is brooding and sullen from Jonathan's death up until the creation of the Fortress). But that won't last. Its no mistake that the music changes and becomes more upbeat and inspirational when he becomes Superman.

Where you're getting dark on the other hand, I still have no idea.

Nothing is darker than a little kid running and playing around at his home's backyard.:P

[misslane38]

How then can you have read his work and accept them making Superman into something that is the opposite of it? Or Jonathan Kent for that matter? Surely you remember the "Graduation" chapter of Miracle Monday? Doesn't the prospect of Superman learning his morals in spite of Jonathan Kent instead of from him bother you? It bothers me, it bothers me a lot. I didn't like it when Waid did it in Birthright and I don't like it here.

Because I've read the whole chapter of "Graduation" and not the first sentence. I'm not judging this Jonathan and this Superman story as a whole based on next to nothing.

Everyone understands the core of who and what Superman is. There is, at heart, actually very little disagreement about this.

Never said there was disagreement about the core of Superman's character, but rather what is known about the character. Most people know a few basic things about him; none of which are contradicted by this new trailer.

I think we're generally saying the same thing. I agree they don't think that deeply on this issue. Most people have more important things to think about. :) They understand these things, though, without having to think deeply about them. It's exactly why Superman is a classic character and transcends the revisions. When something is "off," they may still enjoy the story, but they will understand too that it's off.

I have yet to see anything from the film that would mark it among the uninitiated as "off" in terms of Superman's core character.

The entire tone of the trailer is dark, brooding and sullen. None of these characteristics are associated with Superman, or with a story about Superman. I'm not saying Superman is never serious, but the entire emotional impact of almost every scene we've been shown is not one that is generally associated with the Man Of Steel. Many people will enjoy this take anyway, but it's not likely to change their conviction that it isn't "really" Superman, even as we weren't fooled into thinking that Batman: Robot Fighter was really Batman.

It's not dark. It's not fun or lighthearted, but it's not dark. A trailer that focuses on the love of family and acceptance from a human like Lois is not a trailer that is ultimately dark. A trailer that shows that Superman will save his friends, save innocent people, fight the last members of his dead race, and willingly submit to shackles is a trailer that shows me that this Superman is a man who has been presented with many reasons to see the worst in people but continues to use his powers with restraint in the hopes that he might be accepted by humanity -- even inspire them to join him in the sun. There are two halves of the trailer: the introspective part and the action part. What we see is that after a period of contemplation, Clark embraces who he is and steps into the light to fight evil and darkness. That's the Superman most people know about and understand; thus I do not believe many people view Man of Steel as an "off" take on the character.

[Hehey]

Marvel fans should have no reason to feel challenged by this movie or any movie. Their series are critical and commercial triumphs, and it's all based in the fact that their studio and their leaders are proud of their characters and history. Marvel revels in being Marvel. I wish the brass at DC had their pride.

What the DC brass wants or feels doesn't matter because DC doesn't have a movie studio and DC does not make movies. Warner Bros handles all of that.

[Kurosawa]

Because I've read the whole chapter of "Graduation" and not the first sentence. I'm not judging this Jonathan and this Superman story as a whole based on next to nothing.



Never said there was disagreement about the core of Superman's character, but rather what is known about the character. Most people know a few basic things about him; none of which are contradicted by this new trailer.



I have yet to see anything from the film that would mark it among the uninitiated as "off" in terms of Superman's core character.



It's not dark. It's not fun or lighthearted, but it's not dark. A trailer that focuses on the love of family and acceptance from a human like Lois is not a trailer that is ultimately dark. A trailer that shows that Superman will save his friends, save innocent people, fight the last members of his dead race, and willingly submit to shackles is a trailer that shows me that this Superman is a man who has been presented with many reasons to see the worst in people but continues to use his powers with restraint in the hopes that he might be accepted by humanity -- even inspire them to join him in the sun. There are two halves of the trailer: the introspective part and the action part. What we see is that after a period of contemplation, Clark embraces who he is and steps into the light to fight evil and darkness. That's the Superman most people know about and understand; thus I do not believe many people view Man of Steel as an "off" take on the character.

Well, believe what you want. I'm still concerned and I still think critically and question things.

[HXHAlex]

Their loss. I'm a convert to Superman, started reading about a 14ish months ago

First two books I picked up were Grounded and Earth One. I found out both stories received very mixed reviews. However being a pretty much Superman virgin I liked the books and couldn't put them down

[misslane38]

Well, believe what you want. I'm still concerned and I still think critically and question things.

Don't pull that arrogant BS with me. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm not thinking critically. I'd say someone who judges a whole film based on a snippet of an unfinished conversation is someone who shouldn't be pointing fingers.

[Kurosawa]

Don't pull that arrogant BS with me. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm not thinking critically. I'd say someone who judges a whole film based on a snippet of an unfinished conversation is someone who shouldn't be pointing fingers.

I have yet to see you question the first thing about this movie or do anything but outright praise it.

[Coal Tiger]

Well, believe what you want. I'm still concerned and I still think critically and question things.

What exactly are you questioning? All I've seen you do so far is question people's fandom and call a second of footage "disgusting".