what version of Superboy is the best,or your family?

[Lexrules]

If you read the books.....

-Westfield was the head of the government agency whose sole purpose is cloning and genetic research and wanted to make a clone for the purpose of a government Superman as stated in previous issues.

-Luthor wanted Superman DEAD and NOT RESURRECTED in ANY WAY including as a clone.

-Westfield had legitimate MOTIVE and REASON based on previous issues.

-Luthor didn't know about Superboy and his own mole told him after the fact based on previous issues.

-Lex wanted full control with no alien to challenge him. He was HAPPY that Superman was dead and couldn't be brought back as shown in the book.

-Westfield stole the body because Lex stopped him from cloning Superman.

-If Luthor wanted a Superman, he'd make one himself as he had his own Lexcorp cloning labs and made Supergirl clones.

-An executive director in charge with not-so-pure motives, a grudge against Superman, and control issues wouldn't pass on the opportunity to make himself the basis of a clone government Superman? Come on now....

-Versus a businessman with his own resources and no cloning background supposedly breaking into a government facility when he had his own labs (retconned many a time in Teen Titans) and bringing his hated nemesis back to life with his own DNA when he was PARANOID about Superman returning as a clone for the purpose of......getting close to his already dead nemesis?

If you read the books, it made perfect sense. Lex had no business in Superboy's origin at all. And if you read, everything about Superboy was changed to make the equivalent of Superman.

Sure but they changed all that after Infinite Crisis. Also I have been reading Superman since 78 so yes I read the books when they actually came out. Westfield was a below second rate character and should never have been a part of the cloning of Superboy to begin with. A mistake made because a character like Westfield wasn't going to stick around for any length of time. Johns saw Luthor would make a better back story and rewrote his origin accordingly. Now when Superboy was made Jurgens and the others may not have thought he would have lasted as long as he did and figured Westfield would be ok to use since Kon-El would not be around long enough for anyone to care anyway. When he caught on they were trapped in a corner. Johns just got DC out of that corner with a version that would work for the long term run of the character.

[stephens2177]

Actually lobdells SB as a premise is superb,the execution has not been perfect,but the character itself is a great reinvention.

[stephens2177]

Sure but they changed all that after Infinite Crisis. Also I have been reading Superman since 78 so yes I read the books when they actually came out. Westfield was a below second rate character and should never have been a part of the cloning of Superboy to begin with. A mistake made because a character like Westfield wasn't going to stick around for any length of time. Johns saw Luthor would make a better back story and rewrote his origin accordingly. Now when Superboy was made Jurgens and the others may not have thought he would have lasted as long as he did and figured Westfield would be ok to use since Kon-El would not be around long enough for anyone to care anyway. When he caught on they were trapped in a corner. Johns just got DC out of that corner with a version that would work for the long term run of the character.

And you just explained why the new SB is superior to the others,by combining and tweaking the past,and adding a whole new dimension to a great character.

[Lexrules]

Actually lobdells SB as a premise is superb,the execution has not been perfect,but the character itself is a great reinvention.

Can't say I have read it, but I'm sure it is better then his original origin.

[stephens2177]

He was created to be a weapon used for evil,i like that,i also like his new personality,its very Data(ST:NG) with a leave me alone kinda attitude,his powers are way more well rounded and powerful now,he now is every bit a kryptonians equal,plus his TTK is almost alive in that its how he perceives and manilulates everything ,and story possibilites are endless with him,i cant wait for fun adventures after the stink of new wears off and we can get to actual stories.

[George Taylor]

Kal as Superboy is by far my favorite version of the character but since the poll is about Kon, then I'd say it's Kesel's Superboy with YJ as a runner-up.

[C-Dot]

Sure but they changed all that after Infinite Crisis. Also I have been reading Superman since 78 so yes I read the books when they actually came out. Westfield was a below second rate character and should never have been a part of the cloning of Superboy to begin with. A mistake made because a character like Westfield wasn't going to stick around for any length of time. Johns saw Luthor would make a better back story and rewrote his origin accordingly. Now when Superboy was made Jurgens and the others may not have thought he would have lasted as long as he did and figured Westfield would be ok to use since Kon-El would not be around long enough for anyone to care anyway. When he caught on they were trapped in a corner. Johns just got DC out of that corner with a version that would work for the long term run of the character.

That is wrong.

They were never "backed into a corner" at all and Superboy was NEVER about who he was cloned from. It was about the end result of cellstock changed completely into a new being based solely on Superman with his own independent thing and uniqueness. Not "Westfield II clone in a cape". You said yourself that you weren't a Kon-El fan or even followed him so what books were you reading? Karl Kesel was behind the stories and not Dan Jurgens. Jurgens created Westfield years before Death was even made!

Story > supposed "Tiers" and Westfield's role > Luthor in the stories told. If you ever read any single story with him before "Reign", Westfield had a grudge against Superman following two main stories of Superman going rogue. He's the one who successfully studied Superman, captured Superman on the very first attempt, read his secrets, and actually had the motive for a government controlled Superman set before Death. He used his authority as a government bureaucrat to take the body, proved to be capable of underhandedness for his "supposed good", and actually ran the organization dedicated to cloning. And if you read the history of cloning on Krypton and how it ties to Superboy, all of it made sense to the point that he was named Kon-El after a House of El member descended from a man who fought the clones of Krypton and saved Superman's ancestor. Westfield was still around for years even after his death (so much for not being around...even made a window to bring him back) and after that, Amanda Spence, his daughter was given a motive and reason to be a major enemy for Superboy. All of this made more sense in story and theme than Luthor ever did. So no, you're wrong about that and I actually read all of the original run and Titans to state that. Westfield was Superboy's enemy. Superman is Luthor's enemy. Westfield had anger for Luthor taking Superman's body away which lead to Superboy's creation and a war between Cadmus and Lexcorp. Luthor had a hand in Metallo, Bizarro, Parasite, Doomsday Clones, Supergirl clones, AND Superboy? He doesn't have to be in every single facet of Superman. And no "tiers" should even be there when it comes to reading the book and seeing how everything played out. Joker's higher than Joe Chill but they still used Chill in other media and comics when it comes to Batman's origin based on the story told. Norman Osborn is higher than the Jackal, but who is still behind Ben Reilly, Kaine, and other clones? It's using what makes sense.

Titans didn't even get any of the character right from origin to powers to even what the clone was supposed to be. He rewrote it based on wanting to shoehorn Luthor in there and didn't even bother looking at the 20+ books that stated his origins or knew that he wasn't a hybrid (and pitched it before Titans). Westfield was a "wacked out scientist" according to Johns and he even got Cadmus and Match wrong. Match was never a Bizarro and "Cadmus Labs" never worked with Lex. Even his new powers shown in his original series and Batgirl was never even mentioned again and he got redundant powers that completely removed the purpose of tactile telekinesis.

Lex Luthor was never a geneticist or a cloner. He NEEDED help to make his clone body from the man who created Bizarro and had his own scientists to make clones in his own secret Lexcorp facility. And facts you failed to mention is that Luthor DIDN'T know about Superboy, he personally stopped any attempt to clone Superman, and was PARANOID about Superman returning from the dead as a clone before Superboy was even made. Read Funeral for a Friend. Lex stated it MANY a time. And when he got conformation that Superman couldn't be cloned, Luthor actually was HAPPY. Elated. Glad. He had control of the city, his Supergirl, and his own clones of Supergirl ready (Supergirl miniseries 1994). For one to actually willingly recreate his own nemesis with his own DNA made no sense in story or in execution. Luthor had Superboy alone many a time in Reign and didn't have any sign or clue of him. And how in the world in make sense to make Superboy a hybrid when he made and given powers based on the fact that Superman couldn't be cloned but could create a Kryptonian equivalent who was a Earth based Kryptonian?

And all of these retcons happened two years before Infinite Crisis and even more retcons were made throughout Titans. IC had nothing to do with it.

[stephens2177]

Well the poll looks like the original kesel SB wins,and the YJ SB is second,and its funny cause they are the most opposite,having nothing besides cadmus in their origin.actuallyif they combined those two versions together,they would makes the perfect SB easily,thats my opinion atleast.

[MajorHoy]

About the poll . . . does Smallville feature a version of clone-boy?

[Whip Whirlwind]

I voted for Kesel, and 2nd place would be YJ, but I do like the overall concept for new52 superboy. Unfortunately, like most of lobdell's recent work, the execution falls flat.

On the lex issue, I didn't mind him being the donor, since it's another layer to the character, but I hated how long he dwelled on it and how long it defined him.

[stk]

About the poll . . . does Smallville feature a version of clone-boy?

Yes. Half-Clark/half-Lex, just like the comics. Even had the black t-shirt with red S.

[stephens2177]

About the poll . . . does Smallville feature a version of clone-boy?

Clone boy...really....really ....ugh.

Smallville superboy is a lex/clark hybrid clone with kryptonian full powers.

[stk]

Clone boy...really....really ....ugh.

For someone who is so dismissive of the original character, you probably shouldn't act surprised or hurt when someone acts dismissive of the character you like.

[stephens2177]

For someone who is so dismissive of the original character, you probably shouldn't act surprised or hurt when someone acts dismissive of the character you like.

Oh no that isnt gonna apply here buddy,for one this is a seperate thread,i didnt include the clark/superboy at all so its not about him,and two,im not insulting him,even in the passive way hoy is doing.this is about superboy the clone,kon,and conner,the one with human and kryptoniam dna,and TK and kryptonian powers,i wouldnt include firestorm or blue beetle either,just as much as the clark superboy.

Just cause you like a character doesnt mean you trash another,in a thread completely and tottally about that character.

[stk]

Oh no that isnt gonna apply here buddy,for one this is a seperate thread,i didnt include the clark/superboy at all so its not about him,and two,im not insulting him,even in the passive way hoy is doing

Yes, you are. It's hilarious that you can't see it. You ask, "What version of Superboy is the best?" and then leave off the most important option. If you'd asked, "What version of clone Superboy" or "What version of Kon-El" or whatever, then I'd agree with you. And I have no problem discussing Kon-El. But your title just says SUPERBOY.