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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishbonex View Post
    I have no idea why people get upset that DC would update a characters ethnicity, sex or sexuality to better reflect modern times. These characters were created in a white, male dominated time and that's fine. But WHY NOT change it given the chance with the New 52?
    Lets look at it anotherway how about killing of Power Man, Black Lighting, Icon, Falcon and BP and introducing a female, white, lesbian version of the said character. Do you think there would be an outcry? Look there's nothing wrong with creating a new character that happens to be Asian, Gay, Atheist or whatever there's something wrong with twisting a character history to suddendly create a gay character when he wasn't gay before Obsidian, Rawhide Kid, Moondragon, Grace and others even when the writer and creator of the character said the character wasn't gay.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishbonex View Post
    I have no idea why people get upset that DC would update a characters ethnicity, sex or sexuality to better reflect modern times. These characters were created in a white, male dominated time and that's fine. But WHY NOT change it given the chance with the New 52?
    Because there was nothing wrong with the characters as they were originally created, and a lot of people liked them that way.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow knight View Post
    Lets look at it anotherway how about killing of Power Man, Black Lighting, Icon, Falcon and BP and introducing a female, white, lesbian version of the said character. Do you think there would be an outcry? Look there's nothing wrong with creating a new character that happens to be Asian, Gay, Atheist or whatever there's something wrong with twisting a character history to suddendly create a gay character when he wasn't gay before Obsidian, Rawhide Kid, Moondragon, Grace and others even when the writer and creator of the character said the character wasn't gay.
    Didn't the creator of Obsidian said it made sense that the character was gay?

  4. #184
    Junior Member Comeuppance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Because there was nothing wrong with the characters as they were originally created, and a lot of people liked them that way.
    Nailed it.

  5. #185
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Because there was nothing wrong with the characters as they were originally created, and a lot of people liked them that way.
    I find this funny from someone that is a stated fan of the works of Alan Moore.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  6. #186
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    I got about a third of that. Do you really think this serves any purpose? What is an 'xcters'?
    I figure, ignore them and maybe they'll get the picture.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  7. #187
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoGoatee View Post
    So if Storm was changed to a white woman, nobody could mind because who cares about skin color, right?

    I agree equality is the ideal to strive for in life, but this doesn't mean skin color, sexuality, gender, and other things that make us up don't mean anything. We're all equal, yes. Doesn't mean Storm should be a Japanese dude in his 50s. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm sure somebody would appreciate that interpretation. But personally, I do think her race and gender matter to her character, and perhaps even her sexuality. Not to say they can't change any previous characters, but it's perfectly valid that not everyone will agree with those changes.
    You wouldn't change Storm to a white woman because that would be moving in the wrong direction. Minorities are under-represented in the comics world.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  8. #188
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    Because there was nothing wrong with the characters as they were originally created, and a lot of people liked them that way.
    Yes there was. They were all white, straight, and male. That's a problem.

    You might have liked them that way. A lot of white people liked being assured of getting a seat in the front of the bus, too.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  9. #189
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow knight View Post
    Lets look at it anotherway how about killing of Power Man, Black Lighting, Icon, Falcon and BP and introducing a female, white, lesbian version of the said character. Do you think there would be an outcry? Look there's nothing wrong with creating a new character that happens to be Asian, Gay, Atheist or whatever there's something wrong with twisting a character history to suddendly create a gay character when he wasn't gay before Obsidian, Rawhide Kid, Moondragon, Grace and others even when the writer and creator of the character said the character wasn't gay.
    Changing a black character to white would be moving away from diversity, not towards it. Making them a female lesbian MIGHT balance out, it would depend on who you were talking to. And there is everything wrong with creating a new character - nobody will ever buy a solo book with that character in it.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  10. #190
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadenewt View Post
    I find this funny from someone that is a stated fan of the works of Alan Moore.
    boom -- roasted.

  11. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by babybro View Post
    Dude, really? you already know the answer as to why the "creating new characters" ordeal doesn't fly, that "excuse" is nothing more than "create new minority characters that I don't read about, but leave the characters I like alone." If readers gave new characters a chance, we most likely wouldn't be having this problem. But it's obviously not the case. See literally every single minority book on DC side except for batwing being cancelled, and who knows how much longer even that is going to last.

    Such a positive outlook you have. The reality is, if a minority character's title has a top notch creative team who does well with the character, the book will sell.

    Morphing a long-running white character into a minority character won't particularly help in sales. If you think it will, let's see an Uncle Sam ongoing. I bet it'll sell like hotcakes.


    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    You've really got to get that keyboard fixed. Though I think there were some actual words in these posts, so that's an improvement. No idea what you said, though.
    lol, not that he should particularly care, but I've had SilverZeal on ignore since I first started seeing his posts (Around a year or two ago).....Trying to decipher his posts gives me a headache.




    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    Because those things are not the same. The "imagery" he's conveying with that is that if what she said was dumb or uneducated, then he has given us a preliminary explanation. Not that he's doing it on purpose but because it had become a natural way of communicating by people of his generation.
    I would assume he has a history of conveying that type of imagery, and that you're not reading too far into it.


    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    There is a context behind why people say the things that they say. That's why a black man can use the "n" word and a white guy can't. Because words are not just words, they have both meaning and historical context.
    Regardless of historical context, it's ridiculous for anyone to use the "n" word. It's as stupid as females calling each other "b!tch" in a positive light, although the "n" word has a far more deep-rooted history to it, which makes me shake my head even more when people use it, regardless of the color of their skin.

    And some people completely overuse the word to an absurd degree....One time I had finished working out at the gym, and an NBA play-off game was on (Final several minutes), so I sat downstairs to watch a bit of it before leaving. There was an obese Black guy sitting next to me, he reminded me of Jermaine "Huggy" Hopkins (from the movies Phat Beach & Def Jam's How to be a Player)....Just think of Jermaine Hopkins, but with an odd, overdone passion for street lingo. Anyway, a commercial comes on for a Manny Pacquiao fight, and the guy goes, "That nigga Pacquiao's gonna knock him out." .......I was somewhat caught off-guard, and thought to myself, "Did he really refer to a Filipino as 'nigga'?" .......Makes me wonder if he referred to Mitt Romney the same way during the presidential race.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Reminds me of the "I speak jive" scene in Airplane.
    What's funny is I could decipher that jive scene in airplane far more easily than SilverZeal's posts.
    Last edited by Christopher Cross Is God; 12-13-2012 at 11:46 AM.

  12. #192
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Cross Is God View Post
    Such a positive outlook you have. The reality is, if a minority character's title has a top notch creative team who does well with the character, the book will sell.

    Morphing a long-running white character into a minority character won't particularly help in sales. If you think it will, let's see an Uncle Sam ongoing. I bet it'll sell like hotcakes.
    Give me 5 examples of minority solo books that lasted more than what, 20 issues, in the last 5 years?

    Making a white character into a minority character will do more for sales than creating a new minority character. Or do you think DC and Marvel have no idea what will sell in the market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Cross Is God View Post
    I would assume he has a history of conveying that type of imagery, and that you're not reading too far into it.
    Well, if I am, so is everyone else in the family. We all feel the same way about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Cross Is God View Post
    Regardless of historical context, it's ridiculous for anyone to use the "n" word. It's as stupid as females calling each other "b!tch" in a positive light, although the "n" word has a far more deep-rooted history to it, which makes me shake my head even more when people use it, regardless of the color of their skin.
    Well, you can talk about how things should be all you want - I'm living in the real world.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  13. #193
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    What's funny is I could decipher that jive scene in airplane far more easily than SilverZeal's posts.
    I gave up even trying. His posts just depress me. I had to put him on my ignore list. The first person I've ever put on ignore. I don't even know if I disagree with him. I can't tell. All I know is that looking at the way he posts makes me sad.

  14. #194
    Jaeger secret-keeper Sandor Clegane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishbonex View Post
    I have no idea why people get upset that DC would update a characters ethnicity, sex or sexuality to better reflect modern times.
    To an extent, I agree. However, the Uncle Sam icon is based on the visage of a real-life American - Samuel Wilson:



    Does that mean that DC *must* hew to historically accurate characters? Of course not. But if they don't, then it's no longer a translation of the very thing they're attempting to draw name-recognition from, and making it less meaningful as a result. Think if DC fictionalized John F. Kennedy, Jr. into a Japanese oil tycoon. Is that still JFK?

    That said, what DC does with a loosely-based historical figure in a low-selling comic doesn't matter a whole lot; it makes zero impact on the real icon or anything real-world.

  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    Give me 5 examples of minority solo books that lasted more than what, 20 issues, in the last 5 years?

    Making a white character into a minority character will do more for sales than creating a new minority character. Or do you think DC and Marvel have no idea what will sell in the market?

    Do you not realize you contradicted yourself? If making a white character into a minority character will do more for sales, why aren't there a slew of minority solo books which lasted more than 20 issues in the last 5 years? Not enough morphed white-into-minority characters yet?


    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    Well, you can talk about how things should be all you want - I'm living in the real world.
    Ah, so the real world is where people commonly use slurs on one another in a positive light? Nice world you live in.

    I'm part-Middle Eastern, yet I've never come across any Middle Easterners who refer to each other as "my sandnigga" or "my camel jockey." ......And if any Middle Easterners out there do such, they're complete idiots.


    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I gave up even trying. His posts just depress me. I had to put him on my ignore list. The first person I've ever put on ignore. I don't even know if I disagree with him. I can't tell. All I know is that looking at the way he posts makes me sad.
    lololol, he's the only person I've put on my ignore list, also.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he's getting a good laugh out of seeing us talk about it.

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