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  1. #16
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
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    It doesn't take the Internet to realize what's in front of your eyes, it takes the usual brains.

    But since you mix up "influence" with "major resemblance to Watchmen" and "origin" with "made his identity public, is rich and is a mysterious threat" and don't seem to distinguish between character (Ozymandias from Watchmen) and plot (the Watchmen story) I can see reading doesn't work out great for you.

    By the way, jsf, both Iron Fist and Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt owe their origin to a golden age character, Amazing Man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing...ublications%29

  2. #17
    NEW VALIANT blog is up! Manga4life's Avatar
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    That kind of story happened way before Watchmen and the Ozymandias character, there are tons of stories that resemble that and again, I see no major resemblance or a heavy influence coming from it at all. Like I said before, if that's what they're going for than they're failing horribly.

    If they're going for a fun and enjoyable story than they're succeeding, however. But yeah, good luck with thinking otherwise, two thumbs up :D

    LoL!

  3. #18
    Senior Member jsf's Avatar
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    I think the development of him revealing himself, plus the "save the world by generating a bigger threat" is the Watchmen influence (the dragon being generated by a motiviation that is similar to that of Ozymandias' use of the exploding squid). There, howeve, I think the resemblance ends. (And I believe there was a two page in-house ad for Dynamite that proclaimed something like "Before Watchmen there was Peter Cannon" or some such thing -- clearly trying to play into DC's recent efforts with the franchise).

    Like I said, I'm finding more overlap between Peter Cannon and Danny Rand at this point than anything else. Both are the chosen ones of a hidden society -- both are trained in the use of their spiritual abilities for potentially martial arts purposes -- both are wealthy but not fully comfortable with their status in the West, etc etc. Peter Cannon just seems a little less humble to me, though.
    Last edited by jsf; 12-21-2012 at 05:52 AM.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsf View Post
    I think the development of him revealing himself, plus the "save the world by generating a bigger threat" is the Watchmen influence (the dragon being generated by a motiviation that is similar to that of Ozymandias' use of the exploding squid). There, howeve, I think the resemblance ends. (And I believe there was a two page in-house ad for Dynamite that proclaimed something like "Before Watchmen there was Peter Cannon" or some such thing -- clearly trying to play into DC's recent efforts with the franchise).

    Like I said, I'm finding more overlap between Peter Cannon and Danny Rand at this point than anything else. Both are the chosen ones of a hidden society -- both are trained in the use of their spiritual abilities for potentially martial arts purposes -- both are wealthy but not fully comfortable with their status in the West, etc etc. Peter Cannon just seems a little less humble to me, though.
    The overlap with Danny Rand is because both characters were originally based on the same source character and co-opt his origin almost to the letter: Amazing Man.

    However, I find Dynamite's far more like Ozymandias and Watchmen. If DC is doing "Before the Watchmen" this story and its beats could easily be titled "After the Watchmen". He pulled the world from the brink of nuclear armageddon through a ruse that basically holds it hostage. Now, what does the world do next, how long will the fragile peace last, and will his role in it be uncovered? There's enough changes to avoid lawsuit, but the storyline and set-up is clearly based on the book. Then, there's the character himself. Moore took Peter Cannon and changed him significantly to turn him into Ozymandias. Dynamite has basically taken Ozymandias and tried to turn him back into Peter Cannon, but a lot of that influence remains (just as DC's new Captain Atom and the modern takes on Dr. Solar are all trying to take Dr. Manhattan and shoe-horn him back into a superhero). The first issue has a reference to Alexander the Great, Ozymandias' influence. The whole idea of trying to trick the world, bring peace through a lie instead of enlightenment is an Ozymandias move. Being wealthy and famous as a public superhero, the openings of Mc-dojo franchises, basically selling out and becoming a shallow self-help guru, these are all things that are influenced by Ozymandias and not the more introspective and introverted character created by PAM. About the only aspect of the original character that really remains is the reluctance aspect and specific details of his origin story.

    The costume? Take a striking costume and add elements that make zero sense for a martial artist and that basically turns it into one that's very generic and like many of the modern redesigns with superfluous lines and details.

  5. #20
    Junior Member Queso6p4's Avatar
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    This is easily in my top fifteen favorite series of the year. I'm really glad I gave it a shot.
    My blog where I mostly do comic reviews

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  6. #21
    Junior Member AstroShark's Avatar
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    Im reading it as well..pretty good stuff here..i wouldnt mind seeing Dynamite gettting the rights to the rest of the Charlton Characters.

  7. #22
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AstroShark View Post
    Im reading it as well..pretty good stuff here..i wouldnt mind seeing Dynamite gettting the rights to the rest of the Charlton Characters.
    I think DC still has those. . . wasn't Peter Cannon just an anomaly?
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  8. #23
    Senior Member jsf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I think DC still has those. . . wasn't Peter Cannon just an anomaly?
    Pretty much. They had the rights for a while back in the '80's, but I don't think they told very compelling stories with the character.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I think DC still has those. . . wasn't Peter Cannon just an anomaly?
    Quote Originally Posted by jsf View Post
    Pretty much. They had the rights for a while back in the '80's, but I don't think they told very compelling stories with the character.
    They basically forced Morisi into leasing them the rights simply because they had bought the rights to the other Charlton characters and knew he couldn't afford to fight them in court. When they screwed Thunderbolt up, Morisi snatched the rights back as soon as DC stopped publishing him.

  10. #25
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    Remember, however, that in issue #2 Peter Cannon reveals that he is not in complete control of the dragon. Perhaps the "ruse" was unintentional. This leaves the writers some wiggle room.

    Peter Cannon does lean on "Amazing Man" for a lot, but doesn't disappear in a cloud of green vapor. Thunderbolt is not a super hero, he's a super human. I'm hopeful Dynamite remembers this and makes more of Peter Cannon utilizing more of the human brain and less of the "super powers" that diminish many a title.

  11. #26
    NEW VALIANT blog is up! Manga4life's Avatar
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    Sadly, I have a strange feeling that Peter Cannon probably won't make it past issue #10 or #12 unless sales increase. Sadly, Dynamite is quick to cancel books that don't perform instead of promote them harder to garner new readers and unfortunately for Peter Cannon the book is low on the order charts. I guess time will tell but I wouldn't get too attached, but I do love this book and I wish it the best.

  12. #27
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    I see issues 1,2 and 3 have cracked Diamond's Top 300 list with issue #1 at about #190. The best Dynamite entries start at about #135 on the list with only a few of their titles are ahead of Peter Cannon.

    Still, without the big splash maybe Dynamite will change directions. I remember Marvel carrying a few titles like Ironman or X-Men in the 60's when they weren't doing particularly well....now look at them in other formats. Maybe it's time Dynamite held on to a thinking man's book and let the series find its legs and a larger audience (and someday a greater venue).

  13. #28
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga4life View Post
    Sadly, I have a strange feeling that Peter Cannon probably won't make it past issue #10 or #12 unless sales increase. Sadly, Dynamite is quick to cancel books that don't perform instead of promote them harder to garner new readers and unfortunately for Peter Cannon the book is low on the order charts. I guess time will tell but I wouldn't get too attached, but I do love this book and I wish it the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by veemail View Post
    I see issues 1,2 and 3 have cracked Diamond's Top 300 list with issue #1 at about #190. The best Dynamite entries start at about #135 on the list with only a few of their titles are ahead of Peter Cannon.

    Still, without the big splash maybe Dynamite will change directions. I remember Marvel carrying a few titles like Ironman or X-Men in the 60's when they weren't doing particularly well....now look at them in other formats. Maybe it's time Dynamite held on to a thinking man's book and let the series find its legs and a larger audience (and someday a greater venue).
    But if it's a licensed character that Dynamite doesn't own, they have to pay money to renew that license periodically. If it isn't performing well enough to justify that added expense, why should they bother with it? It's not just like they can park the character for a few years (without any costs) and then try again when situations change.
    Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  14. #29
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    I don't see any license reference inside the front cover of "Peter Cannon Thunderbolt" like you see on "Bionic Man", "Zorro" or "The Lone Ranger".

    Besides, didn't Pete Morisi regain the license from DC once they stopped printing it?

  15. #30
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
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    I liked the last issue (#5). They continue with the Watchmen theme and expand beyond: if you create a threat, won't somebody create a counter-threat?

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