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  1. #61
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    But there's evidence to show that you're wrong. With the exception of the much-hyped Death of Spider-man event, the books sales with Peter were almost identical to the current sales of the book.
    Peter's book, before Ultimatum, was selling much better. However, Ultimatum weakened the whole line because many thought it just not worth it anymore. Many of us, including me, like the new direction. What we don't like is that our favorite characters aren't the ones reacting to it. If they were, I think sales would be better because the direction is a lot more interesting than immediately post-Ultimatum stories. I just want Peter to react to that, just as people want Wolverine to react. However, the argument is relatively useless as you are right in how Marvel views their books and nothing will change. Particularly not in the way I want. So, putting my ideas out there mean nothing besides Fan Fiction.
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  2. #62
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Well yes but comics as a whole were selling better before Ultimatum as well.
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  3. #63
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    Considering how far Marvel screwed up the Ultimate line, I'm kind of surprised it sells as well as it does. There was some amazing comics that came out of the fresh start, but half the line lost it's way even before Ultimatium and that pretty much blew up the rest.

    At this point, it's just a popular alternate universe run of comics. The whole concept of just the classic characters in a modern setting and setup got set fire to a long time back.

    It's done and just moving on entropy at this point.

  4. #64
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darman456 View Post
    Peter's book, before Ultimatum, was selling much better. However, Ultimatum weakened the whole line because many thought it just not worth it anymore.
    Yeah, and it was selling better in 2004 than it was in 2008. Your points are completely ignorant of context. There is absolutely zero correlation between the sales decline of USM and the death of Peter.
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  5. #65
    Peter Parker Darman456's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    Yeah, and it was selling better in 2004 than it was in 2008. Your points are completely ignorant of context. There is absolutely zero correlation between the sales decline of USM and the death of Peter.
    I was simply trying to say the Ultimate line suffered as a whole and that the reason Peter wasn't selling as well was because of Ultimatum and the lack of direction. I was just saying, in my OPINION, sales would go UP if the more popular characters returned in this storyline and were involved in this FANTASTIC new direction. So, I wasn't trying to state there was a correlation between Peter's death and the falling sales of USM but that there was a way to get out from underneath the slump. Again, this is just what I THINK would happen. I can't guarantee it. I just think that the way Peter was selling after Ultimatum is irrelevant in the current context of the benefits of bringing him back. But, again, what do I know? I'm a COMPLETELY IGNORANT individual who knows nothing. So I won't argue with you anymore as you know MUCH more than me.
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  6. #66
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darman456 View Post
    I was simply trying to say the Ultimate line suffered as a whole and that the reason Peter wasn't selling as well was because of Ultimatum and the lack of direction. I was just saying, in my OPINION, sales would go UP if the more popular characters returned in this storyline and were involved in this FANTASTIC new direction. So, I wasn't trying to state there was a correlation between Peter's death and the falling sales of USM but that there was a way to get out from underneath the slump. Again, this is just what I THINK would happen. I can't guarantee it. I just think that the way Peter was selling after Ultimatum is irrelevant in the current context of the benefits of bringing him back. But, again, what do I know? I'm a COMPLETELY IGNORANT individual who knows nothing. So I won't argue with you anymore as you know MUCH more than me.
    How is it that post-Ultimatum lacks direction regarding Spider-Man?
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  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Well yes but comics as a whole were selling better before Ultimatum as well.
    I really don't think this argument carries as much weight as it used to. Comic sales as a whole are actually getting better. Thanks to DC's New 52, Avengers vs. X-men, and Marvel NOW! that argument doesn't work as well. Sales of overall comics has been going up, but the sales of every Ultimate book across the board is going down. Before Ultimatum, even the worst selling Ultimate ongoing was in the top 50 and never dipped below 30k. Also, Ultimate books were frequently on the reorder lists and got second printings. That rarely happens now. The comics landscape has changed a great deal and Ultimate isn't changing with it. The whole notion that it's just this dirty sandbox for writers to do what they don't think they can get away with in 616 doesn't work nearly as well as the notion of Ultimate being the gold standard that it once was. But as I've said before, I don't see Ultimate ending or changing its current format until Brian Bendis leaves. As soon as he leaves, Ultimate will probably end or get rebooted.
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  8. #68
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    It is a fact that USM numbers have been steadily coming down. whether or not that's connected to Miles is up for debate. Personally I think it's a mix - I'm sure a lot of people left the title after Peter died - but it may also be related to the crap-fest the UU as a consistent tight universe has become. It began with Ultimatum and it never really pulled back together.

    That's why I'm in favor of a major (and debatable) reshuffling of reality. Keep some things, out with other things. Something like a DCnU.

    This line used to be what comic books should aspire to be, and it's not anymore. And instead of cancelling the Line (which, if this continues I'm sure will happen) let's pick up from where it was good. Back to the basics.
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  9. #69
    Non-fanboy C. Earl's Avatar
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    It might that the Ultimate universe has shifted so far away from the 616, that some people are feeling it's too different and that it's no longer recognizable to them perhaps.

    "We want something different, but not too different." Maybe?
    Always remember this stuff isn't real.

  10. #70

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    Marvel's entire schtick used to be that they tried hard to keep their characters in a close-to-real-world setting. They don't do that anymore. When the UU first came out, it was a lot more like the real world than the regular Marvel U had become. Now it's a ridiculously far-fetched universe. Seriously, one of the Marvel U's needs a hard reboot. No more Sentrys. No more President Green Goblins. No more Civil War in modern America. Just superheroes in a real-world setting.

  11. #71
    No time for white drama Ballard Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Earl View Post
    "We want something different, but not too different." Maybe?
    That's usually the case when it comes to reluctant change. You can tweak it a little and they probably won't go bonkers; change it a lot and you've got a problem starting with "too different, not familiar enough".
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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    Marvel's entire schtick used to be that they tried hard to keep their characters in a close-to-real-world setting. They don't do that anymore. When the UU first came out, it was a lot more like the real world than the regular Marvel U had become. Now it's a ridiculously far-fetched universe. Seriously, one of the Marvel U's needs a hard reboot. No more Sentrys. No more President Green Goblins. No more Civil War in modern America. Just superheroes in a real-world setting.
    Amen to all that. I know it was that and the truck load of character deaths that drove me away. And I have no idea what marvel was thinking with this whole semi post apoclyptic thing. You think they would have notice a simalar story line killed the wild storm imprint. No one wants these kind of stories for more than an arc or so.
    Just say no to lame Ultimate replacement characters.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    Yeah, and it was selling better in 2004 than it was in 2008. Your points are completely ignorant of context. There is absolutely zero correlation between the sales decline of USM and the death of Peter.
    I wouldn't say he seems ignorant of anything. You just noticed something he didn't. Besides, what he said was relatively true, regardless of what it may or may not determine. Before Ultimatum, Peter's book WAS selling better, and it is certainly a fair argument to suggest that Ultimatum weakened the UU overall.

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