Are Sales on USM Pause for Concern?

[Spiderman 1]

In 15 months, UC: Spider-Man has dropped 50 places in the charts, from 9 to 59.

Well, unfortunately the best way to send U. Spidey back to the big leagues is bring Peter back, with all the hype that would get undoubtedly it will happen. Maybe miles could be the Ult. Scarlet Spider.

[MarvelMaster616]

Give it another year. Marvel will just relaunch the books again for a quick boost. That's all they've been doing with Ultimate lately. They let sales decline and then do a relaunch gimmick to inflate the sales. As someone who used to regularly follow Ultimate, I find it pretty pathetic how far these books have fallen. I really think Marvel has just stopped trying with Ultimate. They sincerely do not care about it as much as they used to. Before Ultimatum, every Ultimate book was usually within the top 50 and never sold below 40k. Now no Ultimate books sells above 40k. It wouldn't be a big deal if the books had always had this same range of sales, like Spider-Girl or 2099. But when a series goes from regularly selling over 50k to not even selling 30k, that is NOT a trivial decline. It led to the early cancellation of books like X-men Forever. It'll probably lead to the cancellation of other books like Xtreme X-men. I maintain that the only reason Ultimate is still going on is Brian Michael Bendis. The day he stops writing Ultimate Spider-Man is the day Ultimate Marvel ends. Until then, I see more relaunches and more gimmicks to keep the line going. Yet I don't think they'll keep working. Remember how Cap becoming president was national news? It did not boost sales of Ultimates at all. That's not a good sign. For me, I'm just waiting for another relaunch to see if something can be done to make Ultimate good again.

[The Ultimate Man]

I see it a little this way. From time to time one makes a tread about the sales of Ultimate comics. People start panicking over or bashing the sales number and around the half agrees on that the line will close. I have been reading on this forum for almost five years and it have always been the same but the line still stands.

[pinq09]

I see it a little this way. From time to time one makes a tread about the sales of Ultimate comics. People start panicking over or bashing the sales number and around the half agrees on that the line will close. I have been reading on this forum for almost five years and it have always been the same but the line still stands.

well, this time however, two UU titles are among the worst selling books that Marvel publishes, many of which are getting cancelled/relaunched in the near future. perhaps more worryingly, wood`s awesome x-men did not generate any noticeable sales boost despite great reviews all round. if that can`t do it, what can?

[Xistel]

Well, unfortunately the best way to send U. Spidey back to the big leagues is bring Peter back, with all the hype that would get undoubtedly it will happen. Maybe miles could be the Ult. Scarlet Spider.

I like that!

[Drz]

Give it another year. Marvel will just relaunch the books again for a quick boost. That's all they've been doing with Ultimate lately.

[QUOTE]

Marvel, you mean? It's not just the Ultimate brand.

They let sales decline and then do a relaunch gimmick to inflate the sales. As someone who used to regularly follow Ultimate, I find it pretty pathetic how far these books have fallen.

Oh quit with your bullshit. Marvel does relaunch gimmicks across the whole Marvel line. It is pathetic that the whole Marvel company has fallen so low, but you don't care about that, but just what pleases you, so don't bother with these senseless arguments where you force yourself to look the other way when it comes to Marvel.

I really think Marvel has just stopped trying with Ultimate. They sincerely do not care about it as much as they used to.

If Axel Alonso didn't care about making the new Spider-Man, why would he bother with it all? Hmm? It's true that Divided We Fall was a quickly assembled story in hopes for new readers, just as much as Avengers vs. X-Men was.

Before Ultimatum, every Ultimate book was usually within the top 50 and never sold below 40k. Now no Ultimate books sells above 40k.

All Marvel comic sales are down, thats why they're reduced to constant events, 3.994 and double shipping because of consumers such as yourself. All New X-Men lost 60% of it's readers by the 2nd issue.

PS. Oh and if anyone wants to argue about how Comic sales have increased in 2012 vs. 2011, sup gimmicks like Death of Spider-Man & Miles Morales. Viva La Ultimate Comics!

[MarvelMaster616]

Oh quit with your bullshit. Marvel does relaunch gimmicks across the whole Marvel line. It is pathetic that the whole Marvel company has fallen so low, but you don't care about that, but just what pleases you, so don't bother with these senseless arguments where you force yourself to look the other way when it comes to Marvel.

Why do you feel the need to throw in personal attacks? Also, I feel it's worth pointing out that some relaunches work better than others. Even if Marvel as a company has had declining sales (I don't know where you got these numbers, but I would like to see them) that doesn't make the degree to which Ultimate sales have declined any less valid. Compared to other books of a similar run, that's not a trivial decline.

If Axel Alonso didn't care about making the new Spider-Man, why would he bother with it all? Hmm? It's true that Divided We Fall was a quickly assembled story in hopes for new readers, just as much as Avengers vs. X-Men was.

What's your point? Avengers vs. X-men was a best selling title. Nearly every issue was top 5 and has undergone numerous reprints. Divided We Fall didn't even crack the top 20 despite the national news of Cap becoming president.

All Marvel comic sales are down, thats why they're reduced to constant events, 3.994 and double shipping because of consumers such as yourself. All New X-Men lost 60% of it's readers by the 2nd issue.

I don't care for constant events either, but they still sell. And they keep selling, as AvX proved and as Death of the Family is proving with DC. Ultimate has been declining constantly since its latest relaunch. I haven't found anything enjoyable about it thus far so my position is that sooner or later, they'll do another. And I'll be happy to give Ultimate another chance then.

PS: Also, if you go out of your way to google images to be funny rather than actually trying to make a valid argument, that says a lot about how serious your argument really is.

[CaptainMarvell]

Give it another year. Marvel will just relaunch the books again for a quick boost. That's all they've been doing with Ultimate lately. They let sales decline and then do a relaunch gimmick to inflate the sales. As someone who used to regularly follow Ultimate, I find it pretty pathetic how far these books have fallen. I really think Marvel has just stopped trying with Ultimate. They sincerely do not care about it as much as they used to. Before Ultimatum, every Ultimate book was usually within the top 50 and never sold below 40k. Now no Ultimate books sells above 40k. It wouldn't be a big deal if the books had always had this same range of sales, like Spider-Girl or 2099. But when a series goes from regularly selling over 50k to not even selling 30k, that is NOT a trivial decline. It led to the early cancellation of books like X-men Forever. It'll probably lead to the cancellation of other books like Xtreme X-men. I maintain that the only reason Ultimate is still going on is Brian Michael Bendis. The day he stops writing Ultimate Spider-Man is the day Ultimate Marvel ends. Until then, I see more relaunches and more gimmicks to keep the line going. Yet I don't think they'll keep working. Remember how Cap becoming president was national news? It did not boost sales of Ultimates at all. That's not a good sign. For me, I'm just waiting for another relaunch to see if something can be done to make Ultimate good again.

This is all very sad, yet very true. Ultimate used to be the "Gold Standard" as they called it for Marvel. Now its basically an afterthought. When the 616 fan gets bored of they're favorite character's story or situation, they turn to Ultimate to see if its any better or more interesting there. People that don't like adult Peter or are bored with him should be able to pick up Ultimate Spider-man and read teen Peter with his multiple romances like MJ, Gwen, Kitty, etc. People that don't like revolutionary Scott, dead Prof X and Wolverine running the school, should be able to pick up Ultimate X-Men and get a totally different story with those characters. People that think there's too many Avengers or simply don't like past Avengers stories or think they're too bright and happy, should be able to pick up Ultimate and read a dark, edgier version of them in Ultimates. None of that is true.

Like I get that those books are different and fresh from 616, but they're different and fresh in the wrong direction. Teenage Peter fighting a different type of Venom, Carnage, and Green Goblin was enough. Changing the character altogether was too drastic. Now its not Spider-man. X-Men is different but again too drastic. Its just a small pocket of people that want to see what it would be like to have an X-Men team led by Kitty with Iceman, Rogue, Storm and Colossus. The vast majority would rather read a different story with iconic X-Men characters.

They need to do another shake up. Ultimate was at its best pre-ultimatum. I still think they should do a story with Miles going back in time and stopping Magneto, that way you keep Miles around, you don't have to break the dead means dead rule and 616 fans that want a different story of their favorite characters have some place to go again. If you think its not a good idea, that's fine, but right now President Cap, Miles Morales and Kitty led X-men isn't sparking anyone's interest and its showing in the sales numbers.

[Drz]

Also, I feel it's worth pointing out that some relaunches work better than others.

Which are? DC 52 relaunch and then? Marvel NOW like i said, All New X-Men, Thor, Deadpool, Iron Man = Lost 50 to 60% of it's readers by the 2nd issue, and the 1st issues had high Diamondlist order due to free copies given away. Ultimate Marvel has a steady pace, it might be going down, but for Thor and Iron Man relaunches to fall seemingly by the time of 3rd issue back to what it was, is not a success at all.

What's your point? Avengers vs. X-men was a best selling title. Nearly every issue was top 5 and has undergone numerous reprints. Divided We Fall didn't even crack the top 20 despite the national news of Cap becoming president.

Marvel as a company makes risks, some work, some don't. Marvel NOW clearly isn't working if their sales estimates we're a long term success like DC's, hence they're already throwing another event. However is is hypocritical and just pointless for you to argue how "fallen" a company is, when they do it for the comics you have decided to favor over, when you began being butthurt over Ultimate Marvel.

Ultimate has been declining constantly since its latest relaunch. I haven't found anything enjoyable about it thus far so my position is that sooner or later, they'll do another. And I'll be happy to give Ultimate another chance then.

Hold down, when did YOU began reading Ultimate stuff all the sudden? Or Marvelmaster, have you fallen so low that you judge a book by it's cover? Shame on you, what sort of a person would do that over the internet!

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Which are? DC 52 relaunch and then? Marvel NOW like i said, All New X-Men, Thor, Deadpool, Iron Man = Lost 50 to 60% of it's readers by the 2nd issue, and the 1st issues had high Diamondlist order due to free copies given away. Ultimate Marvel has a steady pace, it might be going down, but for Thor and Iron Man relaunches to fall seemingly by the time of 3rd issue back to what it was, is not a success at all.

Those were all double-ship books. Retailers had zero idea how many to order so they played it safe and ordered low, especially since Marvel doesn't support things like returnability. That's to be expected.

As for the Ultimate line, reader interest has dropped for various reasons. I think Ultimatum definitely hurt readers perception of the Ultimate books as a whole. The quality of creators on board also tailed off in the lead up to Ultimatum. I mean Tyler Kirkham was the artist on UFF. Going from Ferry to Kirkham was enough to make me turn away from UFF. As for UXM, I don't think it ever really recovered after Kirkman's run. It also doesn't help that Marvel isn't putting their biggest talent on the Ultimate books anymore. That's not to knock the creators they are using. Particularly on the art-side the talent's strong, but again this isn't Immonen, Kubert, Hitch or Yu.

As for how Marvel feels about Ultimate sales? Well they're charging more books by non-superstar talent. They're probably satisfied with the sales as they are.

[MarvelMaster616]

Which are? DC 52 relaunch and then? Marvel NOW like i said, All New X-Men, Thor, Deadpool, Iron Man = Lost 50 to 60% of it's readers by the 2nd issue, and the 1st issues had high Diamondlist order due to free copies given away. Ultimate Marvel has a steady pace, it might be going down, but for Thor and Iron Man relaunches to fall seemingly by the time of 3rd issue back to what it was, is not a success at all.



Marvel as a company makes risks, some work, some don't. Marvel NOW clearly isn't working if their sales estimates we're a long term success like DC's, hence they're already throwing another event. However is is hypocritical and just pointless for you to argue how "fallen" a company is, when they do it for the comics you have decided to favor over, when you began being butthurt over Ultimate Marvel.


Hold down, when did YOU began reading Ultimate stuff all the sudden? Or Marvelmaster, have you fallen so low that you judge a book by it's cover? Shame on you, what sort of a person would do that over the internet!

I would rather not argue this if you're going to be this immature and keep throwing personal attacks at me when I've done nothing of the sort to you. I'll just say it's very early in Marvel NOW! and saying that it isn't working is incredibly premature. The Ultimate relaunch was quite some time ago and the decline has been evident, despite the efforts of major events and Cap being president gimmicks. And yes, I did read Ultimate books after the relaunch. It quickly lost my interest. But I'm willing to give it another chance if it gives a good reason to. Is that not reasonable?

[Robbie_Jee]

What does butthurt mean? It isn't vulgar, I hope.

Well, unfortunately the best way to send U. Spidey back to the big leagues is bring Peter back, with all the hype that would get undoubtedly it will happen. Maybe miles could be the Ult. Scarlet Spider.

Are you mad, man? :D (In universe) Peter Parker only got put in the ground a few weeks ago.

[Plawsky]

Titles that Ultimate Spider-man is outselling:

Daredevil
Batwoman
Hawkeye
Animal Man
Wolverine
Secret Avengers
Supergirl
Venom
X-Men

Titles that Ultimates is outselling:

Astonishing X-Men
Wolverine Max
Gambit

Titles that Ultimate X-Men is outselling:

Journey into Mystery
X-Factor
Captain Marvel
Avengers Academy
Dark Avengers
Defenders


Sure, the Ultimate Line isn't doing amazing, but it's still doing well for what it is. It's an alternate universe. Earth 2 is currently selling higher, but it's also only on issue 5, and it's just one book. Anything other book that's not in the main universe is selling far lower.

As for Ultimate's history, it represents something far different than what it used to, both to readers and to Marvel. People point to Ultimatum as the turning point from sales, but that's completely wrong. Sales started dipping in 2005, and have been doing so continually. Marvel starting putting more and more focus on 616 - particularly with Avengers and events - and sort of left the Ultimate books to do their own thing.

Books didn't double ship nearly as often in the past. A book double shipping takes up an extra spot on the chart, pushing each book down one place.

Team books are a lot bigger right now for Marvel than solo titles. But if you look at the solo books for Marvel, here's the order:

Captain America (#1)
Deadpool (#1)
Hulk (#1)
Iron Man (#1)
Thor (#1)
ASM
Ultimate Spider-man

Ultimate Spider-man is Marvel's #7 selling solo book. Before Marvel NOW, it was #3, behind only ASM and Cap. It sells more than both Wolverine and Daredevil, who are two of Marvel's biggest characters.

Sales aren't great, no one's going to say they are. But they're fine. And more importantly, they're steady. People keep talking about the huge drop since the book launched, but it also launched with a lot of hype. It's since started to plateau, and has been hovering around 40k for months.

[Plawsky]

All Marvel comic sales are down

Saying this in several different threads doesn't make it true.

[Peter Wisdom]

Do people still pretend that paper issues are the only way of distributing comics?