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  1. #586
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
    I hope you're right, I really do. But consider that Superman's monologue during the trailer is that his father didn't think the world would accept him. That makes me think that this sort of cynicism was a common viewpoint of Jonathan's, to the point that Clark internalized it, making it the antithesis that he feels challenged by.
    I hope that kind of gets tied into the "you're going to change the world" bit. Like he comes to terms with the fact that Clark belongs to the world, not just him and martha, and that Clark will change the world so that it does accept him.

    Or the "won't accept him" bit just referred to him needing to hide his identity.

    I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Lol they still have some credit left over from the first set of teasers where Jor El's line is pulled straight from All Star.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    I think Captain America in particular is a great movie and I place Chris Evans as Cap in the Christopher Reeve/Mark Hamill rank of honorable movie heroes-the best of the goody goody good guys. But all of them have had moments where I was just so excited and so proud to see something from great comics on screen that I was literally electrified. Best of all for me, FOX has the X-Men rights so no Wolverine. I like the Marvel Movie Universe better than the Marvel Comics Universe for that reason alone.
    This is one thing I will agree that marvel REALLY shines at.

    Superman looks like a step in the right direction, but I like how with Marvel movies I don't feel like I'm seeing "an interpretation" of Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, etc, I feel like they literally pulled the character off the page.

    On the other hand, I have to admit that most marvel characters are more easily transitioned to live action.
    Last edited by Whip Whirlwind; 12-14-2012 at 06:20 AM.

  2. #587
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    god I hate Superman fans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post

    Get the hell out of here then.
    Isn't funny how the hardest of the hardcore Superman fans are very un-Superman-ish, themselves?

    Kinda like how the hardest of the hardcore Christians are usually very un-Christ-like?
    DC: Action Comics - Detective Comics - Batman and... - Batman - Justice League
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  3. #588
    Swordsman Supreme R0NIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffhanger View Post
    When did I admit to not seeing a Bourne film? See your being delusional again. The point is TDKR could have been anything but a batman movie. In fact batman was barely in it.
    Quoted for Truth.
    I like swords.

  4. #589
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    I wonder if that mother tried to blackmail them or something...heightening Jonathan's fears.

    Her dialogue is quite confrontational...

  5. #590
    Senior Member manduck37's Avatar
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    Man, 40 pages and people are still going on about the "maybe" thing. Ok, so far we've seen about 2 minutes of a an entire film. Of those 2 minutes, we've had a couple of seconds of Pa Kent. So we really can't say what he'll be like or what his views are on Clark's powers. We got a couple of controversial lines, out of sequence, to generate hype for the film. That's all. This by no means indicates that Pa Kent is some kind of selfish pessimist who opposes Clark's morals. It actually means nothing.

    I sincerely hope that MOS tackles hard issues of morality. I sincerely hope Jonathan Kent struggles with the right thing to do. I sincerely hope that Superman shares in those stuggles of morality. Why? Becuase that's what good writing is all about. Challenging the characters in the story right down to their core. Explore them as characters in a world where people can fly and bend steel in their bare hands.

    There is this disturbing trend with Superheroes to keep them behind locked doors or up on a altar to be worshipped and kept safe. No one can ever take a chance or do something that has any lasting impact because Superman has to "be a certain way". So people cling to this idea of their Superman and refuse to let anyone really explore the character or tell a story that has impact. Do you want to know why comics aren't taken seriously or people don't want to read them? It's because they never change. The characters never grow, the story never ends, it's just the same thing over and over again as comic readers cling desperately to their one favorite version of a character and refuse to let go. Superman became a bland Mary Sue or boy scout when writers were no longer free to explore him as a real character. He became a bland cliche of a superhero because he had to remain perfect. No one could relate to him or even understand where he was coming from. A Superman that stuggles with issues of morality and works through them has a lot more credibility when he comes along to show you the right way of doing things. Why? Because he's been there and he truly understands the problem.

    If Superman is going to survive beyond being a pop culture reference, you need to treat him like any other great fictional character. You can't be afraid to explore who he is for fear of ruining someone's perfect image of him. Having Pa Kent or Clark struggle with figuring out the right thing to do isn't grimdark, it's believable. If you create a fictional world with superheroes, you need to make that world believable and have the characters struggle with the implications of having powers. Was Kingdom Come popular because Superman beat the crap out of other heroes and locked them in jail or because of the moral struggle of handling a complex situation? Wall All Star Superman popular because Superman got into high power conflicts with gods and cosmic beings or because Superman had to struggle with his mortality and the legacy he leaves behind? You know what, you can still have Clark and Pa struggle with morality and still have a positive, upbeat and fun movie filled with heart. Struggle and emotional conflict don't ruin stories, they're what great stories are made of.

  6. #591

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    Maybe..there is another way... could be the full dialogue.That is where Jon would give him the idea for dual identities.

  7. #592
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    I wonder if that mother tried to blackmail them or something...heightening Jonathan's fears.

    Her dialogue is quite confrontational...
    That would actually be pretty interesting. It would be more understandable as a moment of weakness on Jon's part in response to being harshly and directly reminded how cruel and afraid humanity can be.

  8. #593
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    Im pretty sure Lex Luthor or Darkseid will be in a post credits scene in MOS
    THE SUB-MARINER 4EVER!!!
    DEATH TO NAMOR!!!

  9. #594
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    Man, 40 pages and people are still going on about the "maybe" thing. Ok, so far we've seen about 2 minutes of a an entire film. Of those 2 minutes, we've had a couple of seconds of Pa Kent. So we really can't say what he'll be like or what his views are on Clark's powers. We got a couple of controversial lines, out of sequence, to generate hype for the film. That's all. This by no means indicates that Pa Kent is some kind of selfish pessimist who opposes Clark's morals. It actually means nothing.

    I sincerely hope that MOS tackles hard issues of morality. I sincerely hope Jonathan Kent struggles with the right thing to do. I sincerely hope that Superman shares in those stuggles of morality. Why? Becuase that's what good writing is all about. Challenging the characters in the story right down to their core. Explore them as characters in a world where people can fly and bend steel in their bare hands.

    There is this disturbing trend with Superheroes to keep them behind locked doors or up on a altar to be worshipped and kept safe. No one can ever take a chance or do something that has any lasting impact because Superman has to "be a certain way". So people cling to this idea of their Superman and refuse to let anyone really explore the character or tell a story that has impact. Do you want to know why comics aren't taken seriously or people don't want to read them? It's because they never change. The characters never grow, the story never ends, it's just the same thing over and over again as comic readers cling desperately to their one favorite version of a character and refuse to let go. Superman became a bland Mary Sue or boy scout when writers were no longer free to explore him as a real character. He became a bland cliche of a superhero because he had to remain perfect. No one could relate to him or even understand where he was coming from. A Superman that stuggles with issues of morality and works through them has a lot more credibility when he comes along to show you the right way of doing things. Why? Because he's been there and he truly understands the problem.

    If Superman is going to survive beyond being a pop culture reference, you need to treat him like any other great fictional character. You can't be afraid to explore who he is for fear of ruining someone's perfect image of him. Having Pa Kent or Clark struggle with figuring out the right thing to do isn't grimdark, it's believable. If you create a fictional world with superheroes, you need to make that world believable and have the characters struggle with the implications of having powers. Was Kingdom Come popular because Superman beat the crap out of other heroes and locked them in jail or because of the moral struggle of handling a complex situation? Wall All Star Superman popular because Superman got into high power conflicts with gods and cosmic beings or because Superman had to struggle with his mortality and the legacy he leaves behind? You know what, you can still have Clark and Pa struggle with morality and still have a positive, upbeat and fun movie filled with heart. Struggle and emotional conflict don't ruin stories, they're what great stories are made of.
    Good sir.....I think you just made me cry.
    You got it spot on.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  10. #595
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtab View Post
    Isn't funny how the hardest of the hardcore Superman fans are very un-Superman-ish, themselves?

    Kinda like how the hardest of the hardcore Christians are usually very un-Christ-like?
    The more you believe in a positive ideal, the less positive you act when you have to defend it from supposed "others" who "threaten" it.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  11. #596
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    Man, 40 pages and people are still going on about the "maybe" thing. Ok, so far we've seen about 2 minutes of a an entire film. Of those 2 minutes, we've had a couple of seconds of Pa Kent. So we really can't say what he'll be like or what his views are on Clark's powers. We got a couple of controversial lines, out of sequence, to generate hype for the film. That's all. This by no means indicates that Pa Kent is some kind of selfish pessimist who opposes Clark's morals. It actually means nothing.

    I sincerely hope that MOS tackles hard issues of morality. I sincerely hope Jonathan Kent struggles with the right thing to do. I sincerely hope that Superman shares in those stuggles of morality. Why? Becuase that's what good writing is all about. Challenging the characters in the story right down to their core. Explore them as characters in a world where people can fly and bend steel in their bare hands.

    There is this disturbing trend with Superheroes to keep them behind locked doors or up on a altar to be worshipped and kept safe. No one can ever take a chance or do something that has any lasting impact because Superman has to "be a certain way". So people cling to this idea of their Superman and refuse to let anyone really explore the character or tell a story that has impact. Do you want to know why comics aren't taken seriously or people don't want to read them? It's because they never change. The characters never grow, the story never ends, it's just the same thing over and over again as comic readers cling desperately to their one favorite version of a character and refuse to let go. Superman became a bland Mary Sue or boy scout when writers were no longer free to explore him as a real character. He became a bland cliche of a superhero because he had to remain perfect. No one could relate to him or even understand where he was coming from. A Superman that stuggles with issues of morality and works through them has a lot more credibility when he comes along to show you the right way of doing things. Why? Because he's been there and he truly understands the problem.

    If Superman is going to survive beyond being a pop culture reference, you need to treat him like any other great fictional character. You can't be afraid to explore who he is for fear of ruining someone's perfect image of him. Having Pa Kent or Clark struggle with figuring out the right thing to do isn't grimdark, it's believable. If you create a fictional world with superheroes, you need to make that world believable and have the characters struggle with the implications of having powers. Was Kingdom Come popular because Superman beat the crap out of other heroes and locked them in jail or because of the moral struggle of handling a complex situation? Wall All Star Superman popular because Superman got into high power conflicts with gods and cosmic beings or because Superman had to struggle with his mortality and the legacy he leaves behind? You know what, you can still have Clark and Pa struggle with morality and still have a positive, upbeat and fun movie filled with heart. Struggle and emotional conflict don't ruin stories, they're what great stories are made of.
    So much WIN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    The more you believe in a positive ideal, the less positive you act when you have to defend it from supposed "others" who "threaten" it.
    Wow, so true, yet so sad. Did you come up with that, or is it from something? Whatever case, it's spot-on.
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  12. #597
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtab View Post
    Wow, so true, yet so sad. Did you come up with that, or is it from something? Whatever case, it's spot-on.
    As far as I know, it's from me , but sometimes you get some surprises as to where you get things you believe to be your own.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  13. #598
    Senior Member Cypher-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtab View Post
    Isn't funny how the hardest of the hardcore Superman fans are very un-Superman-ish, themselves?

    Kinda like how the hardest of the hardcore Christians are usually very un-Christ-like?
    Just when I was thinking of changing my avatar, now I cant because Ill be accused of jumping ship from my precious Superman.

    As you notice, although I'm always ready to put my foot in someone's ass, I never personally insult someone. Unlike a few people we know.
    Last edited by Cypher-Z; 12-14-2012 at 08:54 AM.

  14. #599
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    Just when I was thinking of changing my avatar, now I cant because Ill be accused of jumping ship from my precious Superman.

    As you notice, although I'm always ready to put my foot in someone's ass, I never personally insult someone. Unlike a few people we know.
    That's true, I've never seen you insult anyone. It's the "foot in someone's ass," quick-to-anger, things that seem out-of-place for a Superman fan.

    And you shouldn't change your avatar because Mahnke's Superman is so awesome.
    DC: Action Comics - Detective Comics - Batman and... - Batman - Justice League
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  15. #600
    Senior Member Cypher-Z's Avatar
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    No one's perfect, baby.

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