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  1. #526
    Senior Member Cypher-Z's Avatar
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    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: Now, you listen to me. When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot. But then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently and things get very clear. And one thing I do know, son, and that is you are here for a reason

    (2012 Mos)
    Clark: What was I suppose to do? Let them die?
    Pa Kent : Maybe

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    some people say its a co-worker from the planet
    But off course. SHe's running with Perry and has a DP tag.
    Rehire Grant Morrison for Superman.
    Give Lois her own BOOKS.
    Keep Scott Lobdell in Superverse forever.
    5.7 Million Likes. Please contribute for more: https://www.facebook.com/superman

  3. #528
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: Now, you listen to me. When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot. But then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently and things get very clear. And one thing I do know, son, and that is you are here for a reason

    (2012 Mos)
    Clark: What was I suppose to do? Let them die?
    Pa Kent : Maybe
    There's also "You're not just anyone. One day you're gonna have to make a choice. You have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be. Whoever that man is, good character or bad, it's going to change the world.", which is very similar to the latter half of '78 Pa's line.

    I think the point is that MoS Jon is still in that stage of worry.
    Last edited by Whip Whirlwind; 12-13-2012 at 11:01 AM.

  4. #529
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: Now, you listen to me. When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot. But then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently and things get very clear. And one thing I do know, son, and that is you are here for a reason
    The Blue text sounds like where MoS Jonathan is at with that MoS clip...the red, is likely where he will end up.
    DC: Action Comics - Detective Comics - Batman and... - Batman - Justice League
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  5. #530
    Senior Member Cypher-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    There's also "You're not just anyone. One day you're gonna have to make a choice. You have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be. Whoever that man is, good character or bad, it's going to change the world.", which is very similar to the latter half of '78 Pa's line.

    I think the point is that MoS Jon is still in that stage of worry.
    Bad? Thats just hilarious.

  6. #531
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: Now, you listen to me. When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot. But then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently and things get very clear. And one thing I do know, son, and that is you are here for a reason

    (2012 Mos)
    Clark: What was I suppose to do? Let them die?
    Pa Kent : Maybe
    What's your point? Jonathan in the 1978 movie isn't exactly dealing with the same immediate dilemma or question and he isn't providing clear answers either. He just says his son has a purpose in life. Looking at the rest of the context from the Man of Steel trailer, I don't see the two Jonathans as that far apart at all. In Man of Steel, Jonathan goes from answering his son's question with a "maybe" because he's building up to telling Clark about his alien heritage. Pieces of the rest of that conversation have already been heard. He takes Clark into the barn where he shows him the spaceship that carried him from Krypton to Earth then says, "It's not from the Earth, Clark. And neither are you." "You're not just anyone," Jonathan continues. "One day, you're going to have to make a choice. You'll have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be. Whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's going to change the world."



    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    Bad? Thats just hilarious.
    Why is it hilarious? Jonathan isn't saying he wants his son to be bad or even saying he will be bad. He's simply allowing for other possibilities, like his son making potentially bad decisions in the future. He's making his son understand that what kind of person he becomes isn't his father's decision or anyone else's. It's his, and because that decision has the potential to change the world, he needs to consider his choices very wisely.
    Last edited by misslane38; 12-13-2012 at 11:16 AM.

  7. #532
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    Bad? Thats just hilarious.
    Why? He's just making the point that whatever Clark decides to do he's going to change the world. I think the point of the "good or bad" bit is that it's not his choice. He can't decide what kind of person Clark is going to be.

  8. #533
    Wacktose Intolerant monkeysweat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: ...then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently ...
    Which means he didn't always think the thing he is currently thinking. He came to his conclusion as he got older. Costner's Pa in the trailer isn't 'older' yet. His Clark is still a boy. He's still at this point:

    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot.
    Last edited by monkeysweat; 12-13-2012 at 11:36 AM.

  9. #534
    Senior Member Cypher-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
    What's your point? Jonathan in the 1978 movie isn't exactly dealing with the same immediate dilemma or question and he isn't providing clear answers either. He just says his son has a purpose in life. Looking at the rest of the context from the Man of Steel trailer, I don't see the two Jonathans as that far apart at all. In Man of Steel, Jonathan goes from answering his son's question with a "maybe" because he's building up to telling Clark about his alien heritage. Pieces of the rest of that conversation have already been heard. He takes Clark into the barn where he shows him the spaceship that carried him from Krypton to Earth then says, "It's not from the Earth, Clark. And neither are you." "You're not just anyone," Jonathan continues. "One day, you're going to have to make a choice. You'll have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be. Whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's going to change the world."





    Why is it hilarious? Jonathan isn't saying he wants his son to be bad or even saying he will be bad. He's simply allowing for other possibilities, like his son making potentially bad decisions in the future. He's making his son understand that what kind of person he becomes isn't his father's decision or anyone else's. It's his, and because that decision has the potential to change the world, he needs to consider his choices very wisely.
    *Stretches* yup, same old same old.

    We already debated this. And with my last to reply to you you didnt ended up not saying anything and ignored it which I'll declare as a sign of defeat. When you reply to that one, then maybe we can debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    Why? He's just making the point that whatever Clark decides to do he's going to change the world. I think the point of the "good or bad" bit is that it's not his choice. He can't decide what kind of person Clark is going to be.
    See the above.

  10. #535
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    See the above.
    They have a point. I'm not seeing yours.

  11. #536
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Krypton View Post
    Um...the days of three-piece suits at the workplace are over. What's Clark supposed to wear, if not current fashions?
    Well, the idea of a suit isn't out of date. But newspaper reporters aren't required to wear them like they used to. Most wear casual dress unless they are attending a press conference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    Pa Kent always preached do the right thing, with no doubts. Thats my point.

    You dont like it and only want to talk about your side in this, good luck conversing with anyone in anything.

    They just added that for grim dark and cynical point of view. Because in real life, everyone's grim dark and has a cynical point of view according to directors.
    It's written because Jonathan doesn't have all the answers. That's the point. For once, there is a portrayal of Pa Kent who doesn't know what to do. Unlike in "Man Of Steel", where he just pulled the solution out of his ass, here, Jonathan is at a loss for what to do. This is about why Clark would create a dual identity to do what he does, when he could just do it without a costume and glasses.


    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    I haven't really weighed in on Jonathan's line yet, because I'm undecided about it. In general I agree with those who point out that we don't see enough of the scene to make any good judgments about what's being said or implied here.

    However, I do question the stance that this is an example of a father protecting his son, and that this sort of uncertainty is what any loving parent would express to their child under the circumstances. There's a couple of problems I see with this line of thinking.

    One, I'd like to think that parents would express to their child that they should do the things that are within their abilities to help others. Be careful, don't take on more than you can handle or put yourself in danger, but don't shirk from giving aid if it's within your abilities to do so.
    Which will probably come in the rest of that scene and before Jonathan dies.

    Two, this isn't any parent. This is Jonathan Kent. He is more than other parents are, just as Superman is more than other men are. Jonathan should be Clark's inspiration to be super, always and unwaveringly. It may be more realistic for a human parent to be uncertain about how absolute to approach the issue of morality, but Jonathan Kent is not just any human parent. He is every bit as special as Clark is. If this scene should turn out to be one that displays moral ambiguity on Jonathan's part, then I think it does the character a disservice.
    It's not moral ambiguity. It's moral uncertainty. There is no JSA. Batman doesn't exist here. Superboy is not in continuity. There is no way at that moment for Clark and Jonathan to know what they need to do when the time comes.

    Positing that such a scene would make Jonathan more real seems to me to edge too far away from the comic book origins of the story. It's like being critical of Batman for taking on nine year old partners to do battle with serial killers. Any sane parent or guardian would know better. But Bruce Wayne isn't any parent or guardian. He's Batman, and this is part of what makes him special.
    No, but the equivalent is in "Batman Begins", where Bruce goes to kill Joe Chill but is stopped by Rachel and Falcone's assassin. Sure, it went against the comics, but it was a very real and very human reaction to have. This then set up Rachel reminding Bruce that Thomas would not be happy with his decision. Which then sets up Bruce's decision to not kill when Ra's tells him to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    (1978 Superman)
    Pa Kent: Now, you listen to me. When you first came to us, we thought people would come and take you away because, when they found out, you know, the things you could do... and that worried us a lot. But then a man gets older, and he starts thinking differently and things get very clear. And one thing I do know, son, and that is you are here for a reason

    (2012 Mos)
    Clark: What was I suppose to do? Let them die?
    Pa Kent : Maybe
    In the Donner film, Jonathan didn't have the answers either. The only thing he had to go on was faith. In Snyder's film, Jonathan knows Clark did the right thing, but he doesn't know what to do now that someone has seen him do something unusual. Also, it should be made clear that in previous continuity, Clark never used his powers to save lives until he put on the costume. He only kicked a crib when he was a toddler, held the truck up when the jack fell, ran through a corn field, leaped into the air, out ran a train and kicked a football into the horizon. His Clark was never tested like he will be in the Snyder/Nolan/Goyer continuity.

  12. #537
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    We already debated this. And with my last to reply to you you didnt ended up not saying anything and ignored it which I'll declare as a sign of defeat. When you reply to that one, then maybe we can debate.
    Self-absorbed much? If I'm not mistaken, and I did just check so I'm pretty sure I'm not, I haven't posted or responded to anyone in this thread until just now. Believe it or not, sometimes I miss things or have more important things to do. And the lack of a response is not tantamount to defeat, but coming from someone who took Pa Kent's "maybe" as a demand to his son to definitely let children die, I can see why you might be confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher-Z View Post
    Yeah I know. But I can tell its for a certain "tone" its being thrown there. For a certain reason. This is a work of art not real life, its meant to convey a message. Its not promoting a complete and classic 'Superman' type message in that clip. Throwing something cynic doesnt make it more realistic or relatable.
    So you were desperate for a response to this from last night? Okay. Art can reflect real life, and as a subjective medium, it can do so in a myriad of ways some of which will be closer to reality and some of which won't be. To me, what is "classic Superman" is even up for interpretation, and since we're dealing with Pa Kent here and not his son, Superman, then I think it's possible to broaden that perspective even further. For if Superman, in this film, chooses to save people despite his father's concerns, it does send the Superman message of hope in the face of fear and selfless action for the good of others. What's more, is that it rests more of the greatness of that choice on Superman himself rather than him simply blindly following his father. It is his courage and his free will that is the ultimate good, which teaches all of us a valuable lesson about courage and optimism regardless of who our parents were, what talents we have, and what we've been raised to believe. So, while I think you're right that cynicism doesn't automatically make something more realistic or relatable, I also think that removing cynicism doesn't automatically make something better either. It all depends on how it's executed or how the artist conveys that message, and so far I don't see anything that makes me believe that the cynicism, seriousness, and complexity in Man of Steel will detract from or dilute its potential inspirational qualities.

  13. #538
    Gunning for trouble Dangerman's Avatar
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    Any movie with the "no trunks" costume is better than nothing. And I like when people don't see Superman is their savior like the old movies. They see him as a threat.

    I hope there would be some sort of miracle of MoS to BEAT The Avengers in the box office as the #1 comic book movie of all time, sure he invented the superhero, but I think it'll be an uphill climb to take out Stark and co.

    I only hope Supes doesn't do that stupid "spin the earth" thing again.

  14. #539
    Junior Member TheDarkNut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerman View Post
    Any movie with the "no trunks" costume is better than nothing. And I like when people don't see Superman is their savior like the old movies. They see him as a threat.

    I hope there would be some sort of miracle of MoS to BEAT The Avengers in the box office as the #1 comic book movie of all time, sure he invented the superhero, but I think it'll be an uphill climb to take out Stark and co.

    I only hope Supes doesn't do that stupid "spin the earth" thing again.
    Yeah........ I really doubt MoS is going to make 1.5 billion.

  15. #540
    Junior Member TheDarkNut's Avatar
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    Double post.
    Last edited by TheDarkNut; 12-13-2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Double post.

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