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  1. #1
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    Default 5th Dimensions and Multiverse questions

    So, I've just read the best issue of Action Comics (15) ever. I am however baffled at the idea of a 5th dimension.
    How does a dimension work? How is it different from a multiverse/ parallel universe?
    In AC 15, Vyndktvx killed 230 worlds, 2 of those worlds, the multispear encountered unexpected resistance.
    So the angels are the multispear but what are the 2 worlds?
    On the images above, I saw Vartox fighting the multispear, Superturtle fighting the multispear and what seemed like Superman guarding Mars.
    So where are the 2 worlds that showed unexpected resistance?
    I saw some posts which said that the 2 worlds are Krypton and Earth/Mars.
    If thats the case, are worlds refering to planets in prime earth?
    Or are worlds refering to different dimensions?
    If the different dimensions are what they're refering to, what seemed like 230 different dimensions, how many dimensions are there? Prime Earth belongs to which dimension and what about the multiverse?

  2. #2
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    Here is another thread that discuss about the same issue, but somehow failed to answer all of the questions that I'm baffled to. http://forums.comicbookresources.com...verse-Question
    If Simpson cartoon is 2 dimension, Earth is 3 dimension, then how does 4th and 5th dimension works?
    If magic is part of the answer than why does magic occurs in prime earth as well?
    Also which are the 2 worlds that showed unexpected resistance? Did Vartox and Superturtle happen to be in the same world that Superman is in or are they *gulps* dead?

  3. #3
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    The concept of the 5th dimension goes back to the apparition of Mxyztplk around 1940-1950, while the multiverse has been appearing around the discovery by Flash of an "Earth Two" where was living the Flash of the Golden Age. These two concepts aren't related in any way.
    Basically,parallel universes are a number of 3rd dimensionnal universe that exist independantly to one another. The 5th dimensions, however, is something that exist on a "superior" plane than 3rd dimensional ones. Our world is the 3rd dimension because we live in 3 dimensions: horizontal, vertical, and depth (although some stories argued we were actually the 4th dimension, and the the 4th dimension is time. I think this reasonning is flawed). The 5th dimension on the other hand, is named as such because it has one/two more "dimensions" to it than we do (with the 5th dimension being speculated to be imagination, explaining how people like Mxy or Vindktvx can alter whatever they want according to their will, and how the latter can go back to any period of Superman's life at will). So, in short, the difference between the 5th dimension and the 3rd is similar to the difference between our dimension and a dimension where everything would be flat and where depth would not exist. While a parallel universe is just a similar universe that live in parralel to ours, the 5th dimension is a fundamentally different plane of reality. It has been implied a few time that the 5th dimension exist independantly to parralel universes and that, for instance, the Mxy that plays with Earth Two Superman is the same than the one that plays with the one from the Prime Earth. In fact, since Vyndtkvx is showed to be the one who "corrupted" the Superman born of the idea creating machine in issue 9, that's probably the case.
    I don't know if I'm being clear.
    The two worlds are Krypton and Earth/Mars, because Jor El and Superman are the only ones in the history of the universe who managed to repel it. The planets with Vartox and Superturtle are implied to have been destroyed amon others, possibly with these two heroes. I don't think it has been specified if the Multitude only attacked one dimension, but it's possible since the only two worlds who repelled it are from Prime earth. I don't think it really matters though. Worlds mean planets, since Krypton AND Mars/Earth has been attacked by the Multitude.
    Prime Earth and every "Earth" from the Multiverse are 3 dimensionnal universes.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  4. #4
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightrider View Post
    Here is another thread that discuss about the same issue, but somehow failed to answer all of the questions that I'm baffled to. http://forums.comicbookresources.com...verse-Question
    If Simpson cartoon is 2 dimension, Earth is 3 dimension, then how does 4th and 5th dimension works?
    If magic is part of the answer than why does magic occurs in prime earth as well?
    Also which are the 2 worlds that showed unexpected resistance? Did Vartox and Superturtle happen to be in the same world that Superman is in or are they *gulps* dead?
    4th dimension is time, and 5th dimension is imagination.
    I think that the question isn't so much about what exist or doesn't exist as much as what have we or not control of.
    For instance in the 3rd dimension, we can manipulate the first 3 dimensions and create objects with depth (that's what we do when we create a table, or when we touch something). Time does exist, but we have no control over it. We can't touch it, or build something around it. But creatures from the 5th dimension can manipulate time as much as they want, and can do the same for imagination (while what we imagine remains, well....intangible.) These two aspects are as tangible to them as a wooden chair would be to us. I don't think magic has anything to do with it.
    As for Vartox and Superturtle, well....we aren't told they are dead so anything is possible, but from what we know, at the very least their world has been destroyed. But it is possible that they may have survived the destruction.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  5. #5

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    One thing that's always sort of confused me with the 5th Dimension is sometimes they say Mxy's powers come from 5th Dimension technology and other times it's described as flat-out magic. Is this just one of those "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" things?
    People who chime in on vs. threads with "I don't like Superman at all, but he'd win.", STOP HELPING! Superman doesn't need your damning him with faint praise, thank you.

  6. #6
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    One thing that's always sort of confused me with the 5th Dimension is sometimes they say Mxy's powers come from 5th Dimension technology and other times it's described as flat-out magic. Is this just one of those "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" things?
    It's just writers not agreeing with each other.
    I think it's neither, actually.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    One thing that's always sort of confused me with the 5th Dimension is sometimes they say Mxy's powers come from 5th Dimension technology and other times it's described as flat-out magic. Is this just one of those "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" things?
    The way I see it it's not magic in the traditional sense, but a cosmic consonance so great that we're talking about orders of magnitude beyond mere reality manipulation. It's not 'tech' or 'magic', anymore than technology gives us our ability to imagine and manipulate a 2-D plane in our minds or move from one point on a line to another directly, without having to move on the line itself.

    That said, it has flatly been shown to be magic on at least one occasion that comes to mind -- the Rucka tie ins to Day of Vengeance in Adventures of Superman -- and probably more that I'm not thinking about.

    So I wouldn't say my interpretation is consistent, but it's the most consistent one I think, and certainly the one we are seeing now under Morrison.
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  8. #8
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    Think of the 5th dimension as this place outside of time.

    Morrison himself attempting to describe the 4th dimension
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr-3zUjZgl0

    Carl Sagan describing the transition from 2d to 3d, so you can better understand the transition from 3d to 4d and visualize it better.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0

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    In pre-crisis times, Vartox's homeplanet was blown up and he survived. So this could be a repeat on that.
    This pretty much would go for Superturtle and all the other mentioned heroes as well.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for all the comments and replies. I think I got a better idea of it. Although I'm trying incredibly hard to visualise a 4th dimension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel01 View Post
    In pre-crisis times, Vartox's homeplanet was blown up and he survived. So this could be a repeat on that.
    This pretty much would go for Superturtle and all the other mentioned heroes as well.
    I'm glad Vartox and Superturtle may not be obliterated. Not that I think they're great characters, I just find it a waste to just obliterate characters out of existence.

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