Batgirl #15 Preview/Discussion

**Bluebow** · 12-11-2012, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever

A part of me wonders if DC simply didn't like that Batgirl was starting to consistently outsell Wonder Woman, who is supposed to be DC's flagship female character property. It makes as much sense as any other theory at this point for such a strange stance to take on a high selling title that was breaking into the top tier of their books and Ms. Simone making more and more money hand over fist for them.

Unless it it some kind of stunt and she will be back after two months to even bigger sales.

**LoneNecromancer** · 12-11-2012, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever

A part of me wonders if DC simply didn't like that Batgirl was starting to consistently outsell Wonder Woman, who is supposed to be DC's flagship female character property. It makes as much sense as any other theory at this point for such a strange stance to take on a high selling title that was breaking into the top tier of their books and Ms. Simone making more and more money hand over fist for them.

Consistantly? It only really ever did so whenever there was an event giving it a boost. Otherwise Wonder Woman was doing much better despite being a completely self-contained book.

**Godlike13** · 12-11-2012, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer

Consistantly? It only really ever did so whenever there was an event giving it a boost. Otherwise Wonder Woman was doing much better despite being a completely self-contained book.

That's not even close to true. Batgirl debuted higher, and then as they leveled off, they were leveling off around the same. When Wonder Woman would do better it was quite marginal in fact, and interestingly enough when they both were being boosted be the same event, 0 month, it was Batgirl that did slightly better.

**Aquacatlungfish** · 12-11-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever

A part of me wonders if DC simply didn't like that Batgirl was starting to consistently outsell Wonder Woman, who is supposed to be DC's flagship female character property. It makes as much sense as any other theory at this point for such a strange stance to take on a high selling title that was breaking into the top tier of their books and Ms. Simone making more and more money hand over fist for them.

So DC deliberately sabotaged a success despite it being one of the few with a female writer and doing better than most books? WW is selling very well for what it is, which is WW. Batgirl is part of the Batman line and tied in heavily to it and WW is completely self contained, even from the WW mythos and honestly not a lot of people like WW and the book is selling much better now. The reason for Simone's leaving is probably the same as almost every other, editorial mandate hell and the editores wanted someone who would bend over for them. Also Batgirl sold better than Tec and BaR because it was a tie-in.

**Aquacatlungfish** · 12-11-2012, 01:13 PM

Well at least her run will end on a high note. :(

**mrrightnow** · 12-12-2012, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish

Also Batgirl sold better than Tec and BaR because it was a tie-in.

However, 'Tec and Batman and Robin had tie-ins to "Death in the Family" too, but Batgirl still sold better. To me, that says something: That if DC puts out a good book about Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, people WILL buy it. The fact that she's eclipsed not only Wonder Woman but also Batman's books supports that theory.

**DarkKnghtJared** · 12-12-2012, 09:51 AM

Batgirl taking down Joker and putting a gun to his head, while still a pretty good moment, probably would have been a lot more of a "HOLY CRAP" moment if she didn't pull off the same thing with that thug last issue. The stuff with James Jr. is also really interesting. Overall solid middle-issue, really interested to see what happens next.

**Godlike13** · 12-12-2012, 09:55 AM

Not bad, not bad at all. Art was pretty good too.

**LoneNecromancer** · 12-12-2012, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by mrrightnow

However, 'Tec and Batman and Robin had tie-ins to "Death in the Family" too, but Batgirl still sold better. To me, that says something: That if DC puts out a good book about Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, people WILL buy it. The fact that she's eclipsed not only Wonder Woman but also Batman's books supports that theory.

You sure that's not because people were looking forward to Barbara Gordon facing off against Joker for the first time since she regained the use of her legs?

**batGRRRl4ever** · 12-12-2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by mrrightnow

However, 'Tec and Batman and Robin had tie-ins to "Death in the Family" too, but Batgirl still sold better. To me, that says something: That if DC puts out a good book about Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, people WILL buy it. The fact that she's eclipsed not only Wonder Woman but also Batman's books supports that theory.

But it's all magic gimmicks, don't you understand? As Brave Sir Robbin elucidated recently there is NOTHING that will convince this books detractors that the success of it is based on it's own merits. So what if an issue was part of a tie-in, it still beat out most of the other tie-in's didn't it? Oh yeah though, it was a "trick", a gimmick that people read it. There's just NO way that anyone would read it otherwise! Ridiculous.

The issue at hand was interesting. Both Batgirl and Joker played some proverbial chess with each other. It was clear that Joker was ten steps ahead but he was still surprised when Batgirl pretty much said, "Screw it, I'm not playing this stupid game" and attacked him quite efficiently. That was a great moment to be sure.

Fun issue. I'm both excited and sad to see the conclusion of the Joker arc next issue, which will be Gail's last for the series.

**Ed Sizzers** · 12-12-2012, 10:33 AM

Overall, this continued the good work of the previous issue, at least in terms of the writing. Sempere's pencis were decent enough, and had they immediately followed Syaf's work, they would have been very welcome. Unfortunately, they don't come close to Ed's work so the book did feel a little lacking in that department.

I am a little fuzzy about a James' role, and Babs reaction to her brother's actions. Babs is angry/upset that James sent her to the Joker's lair. But, given that the Joker had already kidnapped Barbara Snr AND had sent a bunch of thugs to Babs house which James warned her about, wasn't he technically helping her? It's not like he set her up - she knew exactly what she was getting into and she presumably still would have tracked down Joker and confronted him, with or without James' intervention.

Still, that aside, and the suitably creepy (but largely unneccesary) Arkham framing narrative slowing the action down a little, this was still another solid issue.

**NinjaMic** · 12-12-2012, 10:52 AM

....yikes.

Thats all I'll say.

**DarkKnghtJared** · 12-12-2012, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers

Overall, this continued the good work of the previous issue, at least in terms of the writing. Sempere's pencis were decent enough, and had they immediately followed Syaf's work, they would have been very welcome. Unfortunately, they don't come close to Ed's work so the book did feel a little lacking in that department.

Yeah, that is kind-of a bummer. I mean, if this is going to be Gail's last few issues, couldn't we get Benes for the last few issues too?

Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers

I am a little fuzzy about a James' role, and Babs reaction to her brother's actions. Babs is angry/upset that James sent her to the Joker's lair. But, given that the Joker had already kidnapped Barbara Snr AND had sent a bunch of thugs to Babs house which James warned her about, wasn't he technically helping her? It's not like he set her up - she knew exactly what she was getting into and she presumably still would have tracked down Joker and confronted him, with or without James' intervention.

Well, with James Jr., what could be happening in his head is, "if anyone's going to mess with and torture my family, it's going to be ME, not this hammy clown." With Babs...this whole situation has her in an emotional upheaval. Over in Batman, she's questioning whether Bruce is hiding something, and he's someone that Babs respects and cares for. James Jr.? Not so much.

Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers

Still, that aside, and the suitably creepy (but largely unneccesary) Arkham framing narrative slowing the action down a little, this was still another solid issue.

Yeah, so far not seeing much of the point with that interlude either--but, I'm sure Gail has something in mind for it. That reminds me--is that Doctor Yi or Doctor Vi? I can't really tell for certain with the way they're lettering Joker's word balloons.