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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seresecros View Post
    what's everybody's favourite minority? mine is little people
    I dislike all humans equally.

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    Those quotas are still there for a reason, it's to offset casual racism.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    I am not sure this is entirely accurate. While it is a meaningful goal to ensure everyone including minorities are fully represented from the perspective of being gainfully employed, there is no inherent right to be represented in a medium in which the target audience is not minority. If minorities want to be better represented in comics then they need to either buy more comics or work in the comic industry. However, as a white male or anyone for that matter, if I relate more to super hero characters that look like me then that is my prerogative because I am free to be selective when it comes to fictional characters. This would be like saying it is wrong that the majority of white males like to date white women. Personal taste is personal taste and shouldn't be confused with societal issues such as ensuring people are gainfully employed.
    The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

    I'm black, but I have no problem reading stories where white males (Gambit, Wolverine, Spiderman, etc) are the main character. In return, I have every right to say that it should be the same for main characters of different colors (or genders, or religions, or sexualities, etc) in general.

    Not everyone is going to agree with this, but I'm not speaking for everyone else -- I'm speaking for myself as someone who advocates fair representation in the media. We've already got enough negative stereotypes out there (black=criminal, latino=illegal, female=sex object) and it would be a good thing to see more positive representation in the comics medium.

    Granted, I expect more out of comics than what I see now, but low expectations won't get us anywhere at all in the end.

  4. #124
    Maker of Art LooneyKoala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valeria Kementari View Post
    I dislike all humans equally.
    Who doesn't!
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  5. #125
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdfalcon View Post
    That doesn't really make sense. Your saying that people don't value different perspectives enough, ok I'm fine with that part. But then your saying that based off of racial bias employers should look to hire more diverse people to get people with different perspectives. But if the people they hire don't really have different perspectives then they wouldn't gain anything from hiring for diversity and thus wouldn't be incentivized to continue trying to bring in diverse people. So either people think differently becuase of their skin color or they don't. Your trying to have your cake and eat it too.

    You can't get people to do something under a false premise and then expect them to continue your practice if they don't get benefits from it.
    I said it was lazy not entirely inaccurate. In broad terms it is probably fairly accurate. There are more accurate ways to determine differences but you can't really get into too much detail when it comes to a person's background, religion, values, or politics without potentially running afoul of federal laws. I am from the Caribbean and when I first came to America, I certainly felt like I related more to African-Americans than I did to any other group. Over time it became easier to relate to other people but it took time. Time that when you are interviewing a bunch of candidates you don't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdfalcon View Post
    This is assuming that employers actually want people that think differently. This is really only true at the management level and higher. Most Employers jsutwant someone that's going to do what they are told to do.
    Which is why the vast majority of employees tend not to be that diverse. You only need to introduce diversity in small numbers to avoid group think. Again, if there is evidence to suggest the workforce of a particular profession is not largely the same, I would like to see it because I haven't come across it.
    Last edited by remydat; 12-10-2012 at 05:34 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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  6. #126
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

    I'm black, but I have no problem reading stories where white males (Gambit, Wolverine, Spiderman, etc) are the main character. In return, I have every right to say that it should be the same for main characters of different colors (or genders, or religions, or sexualities, etc) in general.

    Not everyone is going to agree with this, but I'm not speaking for everyone else -- I'm speaking for myself as someone who advocates fair representation in the media. We've already got enough negative stereotypes out there (black=criminal, latino=illegal, female=sex object) and it would be a good thing to see more positive representation in the comics medium.

    Granted, I expect more out of comics than what I see now, but low expectations won't get us anywhere at all in the end.
    You don't have a problem because that is likely what you have grown up with your entire life since you are a minority in America. You had little choice but to consume media in which the main characters don't necessarily look like you. A white person has no such problem. When I watched Caribbean shows it never crossed my mind that the character wouldn't look like me. And if the character was white, unless something really grabbed my attention about said character, there would be no reason for me not to continue to watch media in which the lead characters looked like me. Again, this is a matter of personal taste.

    And fair representation in the media is one thing when you are talking about living breathing human beings ie films and TV where that unfair representation impacts minorities wishing to be employed as actors or actresses in the media. However, when the characters are fictional and there is no impediment to a minority being employed in writing the stories or buying a comic, any lack of fair representation is ultimately the responsibility of those that feel under-represented. Are you equally upset about the lack of white rappers or do you understand that it was a medium in which white people were not the original target audience? The only reason that changed is because white people started buying rap music hence creating the demand for white rappers.

    Note the above doesn't affect the criticism that once the decision is made to include minority characters that they often are one dimensional, unimportant or killed off. Separate issue IMO.
    Last edited by remydat; 12-10-2012 at 05:45 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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  7. #127
    Senior Member Anodyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seresecros View Post
    what's everybody's favourite minority? mine is little people
    Mine is left-handed people.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post
    Mine is left-handed people.
    Oh Hells yeah. We've been oppressed for too long. Do you know how hard it is to find left handed scissors?
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  9. #129
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seresecros View Post
    what's everybody's favourite minority? mine is little people
    The vegetarians and animal rights folks. I find their self-righteousness amusing especially in light of the fact that if not for the protein humanity derived from eating meat, they likely wouldn't have the brain power necessary to chastise people for eating meat.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

    "Let me go first Lorna. I'm their freaking King!"

  10. #130
    Maker of Art LooneyKoala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post
    Mine is left-handed people.
    WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babyhater666 View Post
    Oh Hells yeah. We've been oppressed for too long. Do you know how hard it is to find left handed scissors?
    It's so hard! I've had to teach myself to use right-handed scissors over the years. It's not as easy as using left-handed ones though obviously. And every class I was in at school would only have one or two pairs of left-handed scissors, and most people wouldn't know the difference I have yet to find a left-handed pair at college.
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  11. #131
    Senior Member Booshman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus ex Chris View Post
    Just go to the Misogyny Appreciation Thread. You know where to find it.
    What thread is this? Does this site allow such a thread to exist? Or is it just a thread that contains views/posters you simply disagree with, and now you opt to mislabel it?

  12. #132
    Senior Member Booshman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    You don't have a problem because that is likely what you have grown up with your entire life since you are a minority in America. You had little choice but to consume media in which the main characters don't necessarily look like you. A white person has no such problem. When I watched Caribbean shows it never crossed my mind that the character wouldn't look like me. And if the character was white, unless something really grabbed my attention about said character, there would be no reason for me not to continue to watch media in which the lead characters looked like me. Again, this is a matter of personal taste.

    And fair representation in the media is one thing when you are talking about living breathing human beings ie films and TV where that unfair representation impacts minorities wishing to be employed as actors or actresses in the media. However, when the characters are fictional and there is no impediment to a minority being employed in writing the stories or buying a comic, any lack of fair representation is ultimately the responsibility of those that feel under-represented. Are you equally upset about the lack of white rappers or do you understand that it was a medium in which white people were not the original target audience? The only reason that changed is because white people started buying rap music hence creating the demand for white rappers.

    Note the above doesn't affect the criticism that once the decision is made to include minority characters that they often are one dimensional, unimportant or killed off. Separate issue IMO.
    Why didn't you address the issue that there is a notable problem when it comes to white people not embracing/mis-representing minority characters? No offense, but you seemed to side-step the logical conclusion that one would make after reading Aja_christopher's post. That's one thing I've noticed is done time after time again. When non-whites mention (in overly white circles) that they don't have a problem embracing white "whatevers", someone mentions proportions with population and how that's completely logical. But the rest of the (let's call it an) "equation" is just left hanging and remains untouched.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdfalcon View Post
    Implying that white males don't want to see Storm naked



    My experience with Asians is that the only thing that offends them that much is if you call them the wrong nationality, e.i. calling a Korean "Chinese" or whatever. They seem to be too busy being productive to waste much time getting offended. A lot of the PC stuff is people getting offended on behalf of other people most of the time. As a white guy, there is nothing you could say about me from a racial point of view that would ever offend me. We won't be truly equal from a social standpoint until everyone is like this. Words only matter if you let them. In other words if people stop getting their jimmies rustled about this stuff then the words will be marginalized and become irrelevant, problem solved.
    My asian girlfriend and her family would partially disagree with you...youre right on the wrong nationality thing but wrong on the "oriental" part, which isnt even a nationality. And just because in some cases they dont TELL YOU their offended wont mean they aren't. And by the way, did you just stereotype an entire race as "seeming too busy being productive to be offended?" You do know all people dont think and act alike just because they are the same race, right?

    But in any case, of course there is nothing one could say to you to racially offend you...you're a white guy. Superman, god, most of the CEO's in this country, ALL of the prior presidents, and hell, 99 percent of the guys who work in comics look like you. You've been running this country and the planet well like...forever. You can walk around with the utmost security that you're the master of all you survey, racially speaking...and the cops won't even stop you for wearing a hoodie.

    And of course, it's that security, born of centuries of NOT being a minority (which actually means those who hold the least amount of power) that allows you to believe that all races would be equal socially speaking if they just chose not to be offended racially. Hats off to you sir, I envy your luxury to be clueless. Truly.

  14. #134
    Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    Why didn't you address the issue that there is a notable problem when it comes to white people not embracing/mis-representing minority characters? No offense, but you seemed to side-step the logical conclusion that one would make after reading Aja_christopher's post. That's one thing I've noticed is done time after time again. When non-whites mention (in overly white circles) that they don't have a problem embracing white "whatevers", someone mentions proportions with population and how that's completely logical. But the rest of the (let's call it an) "equation" is just left hanging and remains untouched.
    I did address it and said it isn't a problem at all. Let me repeat it. I don't care if a white man prefers white women. That is a matter of personal taste and is none of my damn business. I don't care if a white man prefers reading stories in which the character looks like him. That is a matter of personal taste and is none of my damn business. As I said in my response to Aja, I grew up in the Caribbean ie where the majority is black. I never cared or concerned myself with whether the characters in stories written for that black audience where white. Why should I? Just like I never cared if there were not enough white rappers because rap's original target audience was black. The main reason minorities seem to accept white characters more is because they had no choice and not because they are necessarily more open minded.

    So once again, if you want characters that look like you then either get in the comic books business or buy enough comics so that you are a part of the target audience. However, expecting a group of people to change their personal tastes to cater to a niche group is silly. I certainly wouldn't expect it to happen in predominantly black or minority countries so not sure why people think it should happen in the U.S. And I have visited and worked all over the world and I can tell you it is the same wherever you go. You think the Japanese care if there are not enough white or black characters in Japanese media?

    Again I think people are confusing their right not to be discriminated against when it comes to employment and presuming they have a right to be represented in media in which they are not the target audience. Two entirely different things. And you may have missed my last sentence in the post you responded to so I will bold it this time as I thought I made it clear that misrepresentation is a separate issue which I agree with.

    Note the above doesn't affect the criticism that once the decision is made to include minority characters that they often are one dimensional, unimportant or killed off. Separate issue IMO.
    Last edited by remydat; 12-10-2012 at 06:37 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to people not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

    "Let me go first Lorna. I'm their freaking King!"

  15. #135

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    [QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;16285997]Well... being a British person...

    [also from Wikipedia]:
    British English
    In British English, the term Oriental is not considered to be a pejorative or offensive word, and refers to people from East and Southeast Asia. Asian is generally used only to mean people from South Asia.[7] This usage reflects historic immigration into the UK, since more than 50% of the non-European population is from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Burma, (in British English terminology called British Asian), whereas East and Southeast Asians comprise only 5-6% of the non-European population. Of those, the majority are of Chinese descent.[8]




    "THIS!!! And the whole "calling an Asian/Oriental" person the WRONG race. Chine/Japanese mistakes are always embarrassing. Makes me think of Cam in Modern Family with the paediatrician "Pandas are from China... you know what, don't worry."""



    It's funny, Kieran, that you agreed with a post by a guy who basically stereotyped all asians as being "too busy to be offended by anything" as if all asians think and act the same. But I already showed him all the errors of his privileged white guy thinking in my response to him. And like I said to him, ask my asian girlfriend if she likes being called "Oriental". She doesn't.

    I live in NYC, so not going by british english. Here, the term oriental is not used by modern, forward thinking people, especially those under the age of 50. It's outdated and non-PC, but I never said wholly racist. And it's funny that the british wiki page actually gets to choose what they call an entire people that they were responsible for historically subjugating and colonizing in the first place. In any case, in America, the asians your article refers to are called...Asians. Just like chinese people are asians. You seperate them by their country and nationality here (east indian, pakistanian, japanese, chinese, so forth) but racially, they are all asians. Not so hard. Rugs are oriental, not people. But I will admit, european countries are more lax when it comes to race. Fortunately you can afford to be...
    Last edited by jabu46; 12-10-2012 at 07:02 PM.

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