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  1. #226
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
    In all fairness, that could have been difficult. They pretty much either had to fire the editor or live with his decision.
    I wouldn't even think twice about firing en editor who had just fired one of my post popular writers who was doing very well on her book.

    Then again, this is Bob Harras we're talking about. This all sounds very familiar from back when he was running Marvel into the ground.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  2. #227
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    I read that Gail's contract with DC has expired; if that's true I'd like to see her write something for Marvel.

  3. #228
    The Older Waiter Brave Sir Robbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts this will be the sad case, when they could have used an ounce of foresight instead and simply reverse the decision. That's what higher up's are paid and able to do, make the BIG calls when warrented.

    But no, no doubt this book will fall down to 31K-29K territory in the coming months.
    Yup, this is Babs' future. It is sad based on the amazing job that Simone did and the amount of sales she has created because her character resonates with so many people, but everything changes.

    Next thing you know, Babs will be partying with Starfire and trading boyfriends, trying to stop a string of murders of small children, (all graphically shown to the strange excitement of DC editors), and trudging through several inane, ridiculously pompous, issues of overcoming some villains doomsday plans to turn Gotham into a zombie land as she fights through her demons that you never really understand because most of the dialogue is her grunting. It should be swell.

    Just as sadly, this is what DC is after just a few books at the top, a lot of poorly written also ran titles that really have nothing to distinguish them artistically. Simone blasted through that muck and guess where it got her?
    Current Favorites: The Goon, Batgirl, Chew, Alex + Ada,The Sixth Gun, Saga, Diskordia, Think Tank, Archie, Rachel Rising, Red Sonja, X, Wonder Woman, Powerpuff Girls, Ms. Marvel

  4. #229
    The curious one.
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    Feel kinda sorry for whoever steps in to write the book now.

  5. #230
    Senior Member NinjaMic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_S View Post
    Feel kinda sorry for whoever steps in to write the book now.
    Why? It can only go up from here.

  6. #231
    just does things Vil_Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Nope. Batgirl has outsold Wonder Woman for most of it's run.
    Nope, since the relaunch Batgirl has only outsold WW four or five times, the first issue, the 0 issue, and the ones that tied in with Court of Owls and Death of the Family. WW does better when there are no events.

  7. #232
    Senior Member Ed Sizzers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaMic View Post
    Why? It can only go up from here.
    Presumably, from the standpoint that some of Gail's more 'hardcore' fans will flat out refuse to accept any other take on the character. Even if it does turn out to be a well written book, or even maybe an improvement on Gail's work so far.

    "The Tardis, when working properly, is capable of many amazing things. Not unlike myself."

  8. #233
    All Caste Warrior JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers View Post
    Presumably, from the standpoint that some of Gail's more 'hardcore' fans will flat out refuse to accept any other take on the character. Even if it does turn out to be a well written book, or even maybe an improvement on Gail's work so far.
    That seems to be the way of it across the board when a popular writer such as Simone or Morrison leave a book and I don't see that changing ever. Personally, I'm willing to give whomever they pick as the next writer a chance after the guest writer's two issues unless it's someone whose work doesn't appeal to me just to see what someone else can do with the character.
    Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.

  9. #234
    The Older Waiter Brave Sir Robbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaMic View Post
    Why? It can only go up from here.
    Unless you are DC and your goal is to make more money.
    Current Favorites: The Goon, Batgirl, Chew, Alex + Ada,The Sixth Gun, Saga, Diskordia, Think Tank, Archie, Rachel Rising, Red Sonja, X, Wonder Woman, Powerpuff Girls, Ms. Marvel

  10. #235
    The Older Waiter Brave Sir Robbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sizzers View Post
    Presumably, from the standpoint that some of Gail's more 'hardcore' fans will flat out refuse to accept any other take on the character. Even if it does turn out to be a well written book, or even maybe an improvement on Gail's work so far.
    I don't see how this is a bad thing. First, if I am a fan of Simone's writing and bought Batgirl for that reason, I am probably not ecstatic to keep reading the book under a different author. As can been seen by the commentary by many people, while the book was a major success, it has a distinctive voice and many found it very bad. People bought this book because of Simone's distinctive voice and the Babs character she created. The Babtgirl writing by Simone, unfortunately, is way beyond what most DC writers strive for and now, obviously, what the editors will tolerate. I can see "Simone Light" being not as popular but may do OK. If the new author makes a change in direction of the book, look for it to sink like an anvil.

    I also seriously doubt Simone fans will think the new author will improve it. If he does take the Babs character, is true to the work of Simone, and keeps going, who knows? Maybe Babs can get even more interesting over time. But an "improvement" for most of the fans on this board will be Batgirl becoming just another crap DC book drifting along with mediocre writing. You are guaranteed lower sales and Simone fans bailing. There will be anguish, finger pointing at DC by the writer saying he was handcuffed and made to make dialogue of grunts, sexual innuendo and Schwarzenegger one liners, and Didio at a com saying Simone was unreasonable and really, the sales were not that great anyway.
    Current Favorites: The Goon, Batgirl, Chew, Alex + Ada,The Sixth Gun, Saga, Diskordia, Think Tank, Archie, Rachel Rising, Red Sonja, X, Wonder Woman, Powerpuff Girls, Ms. Marvel

  11. #236
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    Isn't not giving Fawkes a chance because of Simone not writing anymore the same as not giving Simone a chance because Miller's Batgirl was cancelled?

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    Isn't not giving Fawkes a chance because of Simone not writing anymore the same as not giving Simone a chance because Miller's Batgirl was cancelled?
    Yes and no?

    Yes, but voting with your wallet to express the loss of something you liked isn't necessarily indicative of negative judgement towards the thing that is replacing it.

    No, Miller's Batgirl was headed towards cancellation based on sales, he wasn't yanked in the middle of a successful critical and commercial run in a way that appears - from the information we have - to have been very disrespectful.

    I will...probably have to drop this book. I'm sure Fawkes is a talented writer and I wish him success; it's a difficult decision for me because I want Batgirl, as a character, to succeed and I'm worried I'm doing her a disservice by removing my support.

    That said, I also feel like I want to make known the fact I do not appreciate the way this was handled. I'm in comics for the stories. I accept that creative teams change, but it's hard to come up with a reason why I should invest in a story if neither critical nor commercial success, or a long and respected association with the character, can offer any insurance against having previously approved stories retroactively unapproved and changed midstream. I'm upset because a writer I like is no longer writing a book I like, but beyond that it's shaken my faith in the company's commitment to storytelling.

    Perhaps a better question is why should I invest in the story Fawkes will want to tell, when I have no way of knowing if it will ever be satisfactorily concluded?

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by toastedbread View Post
    Yes and no?

    Yes, but voting with your wallet to express the loss of something you liked isn't necessarily indicative of negative judgement towards the thing that is replacing it.

    No, Miller's Batgirl was headed towards cancellation based on sales, he wasn't yanked in the middle of a successful critical and commercial run in a way that appears - from the information we have - to have been very disrespectful.

    I will...probably have to drop this book. I'm sure Fawkes is a talented writer and I wish him success; it's a difficult decision for me because I want Batgirl, as a character, to succeed and I'm worried I'm doing her a disservice by removing my support.

    That said, I also feel like I want to make known the fact I do not appreciate the way this was handled. I'm in comics for the stories. I accept that creative teams change, but it's hard to come up with a reason why I should invest in a story if neither critical nor commercial success, or a long and respected association with the character, can offer any insurance against having previously approved stories retroactively unapproved and changed midstream. I'm upset because a writer I like is no longer writing a book I like, but beyond that it's shaken my faith in the company's commitment to storytelling.
    I think it's funny that a lot of people who complained that Miller fans weren't giving Simone a chance... won't be giving Fawkes a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by toastedbread View Post
    Perhaps a better question is why should I invest in the story Fawkes will want to tell, when I have no way of knowing if it will ever be satisfactorily concluded?
    Why should I have invested in Simone's story when I had no way of knowing it was going to be good? I gave it a chance. Fawkes may disappoint... or he may not.

  14. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robbin View Post
    But an "improvement" for most of the fans on this board will be Batgirl becoming just another crap DC book drifting along with mediocre writing.
    How would that be an improvement if it's the same thing as before?

    It's hilarious how you talk up Batgirl as though it was in anyway particularly unique. It was a standard superhero book with a few decent issues here and there. You list Nightwing amongst your favourites as well, that's the same thing too. Standard street-level superhero action.

  15. #240
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toastedbread View Post
    Yes and no?

    Yes, but voting with your wallet to express the loss of something you liked isn't necessarily indicative of negative judgement towards the thing that is replacing it.

    No, Miller's Batgirl was headed towards cancellation based on sales, he wasn't yanked in the middle of a successful critical and commercial run in a way that appears - from the information we have - to have been very disrespectful.

    I will...probably have to drop this book. I'm sure Fawkes is a talented writer and I wish him success; it's a difficult decision for me because I want Batgirl, as a character, to succeed and I'm worried I'm doing her a disservice by removing my support.

    That said, I also feel like I want to make known the fact I do not appreciate the way this was handled. I'm in comics for the stories. I accept that creative teams change, but it's hard to come up with a reason why I should invest in a story if neither critical nor commercial success, or a long and respected association with the character, can offer any insurance against having previously approved stories retroactively unapproved and changed midstream. I'm upset because a writer I like is no longer writing a book I like, but beyond that it's shaken my faith in the company's commitment to storytelling.

    Perhaps a better question is why should I invest in the story Fawkes will want to tell, when I have no way of knowing if it will ever be satisfactorily concluded?
    Miller's run was selling at or above Teen Titans, Superboy, and Supergirl. It wasn't in any immediate danger of being cancelled based on sales alone. It probably would have gotten to issue 40 even without being inundated with events, and with events bumping up sales would have reached 50 easily. A huge part of the reason it's sales dropped as low as they did was because the reboot made it a lame duck, but it still sold above the cancellation threshold to the end and would only have been canceled if DC was going to cancel half of its comics independant of a reboot.

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