Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield.
Then you have greatness replaced with greatness:
It is possible to replace the classic Superman costume with one that is also great. But IMO, neither the MOS or the nu52 costume does this. Ironically, the best of the new looks is the tshirt and jeans look-the least superhero look of them all.
Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield.
Evenually someone is going to do a series with a guy in trunks--either in a comic book or in some other format--and people are going to think it's the cleverest thing in the world. Then everybody and his brother-in-law is going to be rushing to copy this new thing. And fanboys will be saying they always knew that trunks were cool (even though they didn't).
In fact, Marvel was rather crafty stealing the "Captain Marvel" trademark--forcing Billy Batson to call himself Shazam. They ought to put trunks on Spidey--he could pull it off--and then they'd have that as a trademark look.
I think you're kidding yourself in that regard. The look would have to become fashionable again in some real life pop culture form if its to catch on again, and thus be "cool" again. A new comic book character is not going to make that happen.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-14-2012 at 12:19 AM.
Some characters can weather this "modernization", but not all can. Movie Hawkeye, for example, just looks like a normal Spec Ops agent that happens to use a bow and arrow instead of guns. It makes him look bland compared to most of his Avengers teammates, imo.
I never said that it did. But it's possible to get overly concerned with super-heroes looking fashionable by everyday Joe and Jane standards. Superheroes aren't supposed to look like everyday Joes and Janes anyway, so such concerns shouldn't even be a factor. Getting rid of trunks is rooted in being overly concerned in making superheroes look fashionable by everyday Joe and Jane standards. Losing capes would flow logically with such concerns. How many average Joes and Janes wear capes in our modern era? Does wearing a cape serve any practical purpose?Losing the trunks does not = getting rid of costumes altogether.
Sure, for the reason I wrote. A Batman should logically make you think of a bat, which necessitates "wings" (simulated by a cape).Not even close. Batman hasn't worn trunks in live-action since the 1960s, spent 1994-2000 in a trunkless version of his classic gray/blue/yellow threads, and went trunkless for Batman Inc. and the DC-Nu. His costume has otherwise stayed intact.
No, but you could accomplish much the same through slowly removing each "unfashionable" and/or superfluous element.Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY, has even come close to arguing that costumes should be abandoned overall.
And look, we've already had both Superman and Superboy wearing costumes that amount to "Jeans with a T-Shirt with the S-symbol on it". So come on, it's not like this is an unreasonable concern if the superheroes themselves are sometimes grounded in normal civilian attire like this.
Sure it is counterintuitive. Superheroes should stand out from the crowd, which means they shouldn't be particularly concerned with the fashions of the masses. A superhero costume should leave an impression, and be distinctly different from civilian attire. Trunks actually helps this. Jeans and a T-Shirt with a S symbol on it? No, that's not standing out at all, really.What HAS been said is that they want the costumes updated to get rid of aspects that have aged poorly or to reflect current tastes. This is neither unfair or "counterintuitive";
Now it's owned by superheroes themselves, like Larsen correctly argued. Also, what about pro wrestlers and UFC fighters? Many pro wrestlers and UFC fighters wear trunks. So trunks are still associated with real world strongmen.this is one of the ways pulp fiction heroes grow and evolve with the times. Trunks-over-tights is a holdover from the 1920s/1930s when they were standard costuming for both circus performances and sci-fi illustrations. That look was, at the time of Superman's inception, contemporary. Now?
Superheroes are inherently ridiculous. They have otherworldly powers that you never see in the real world. Their costumes should reflect this bizarre nature of them.Trunks-over-tights no longer looks futuristic or athletic or powerful; it looks like underwear over your pants now. You can point to the old circus costumes and old sci-fi illustrations all you want, but it does nothing to change the fact that it's a look that's 80 years out of date and strikes people as ridiculous.
I never said it was shocking that it happened.
Further, the decision to get rid of Superman's trunks? It was brewing for over a decade.
This is a silly argument because some Superman fans consider the trunks themselves as an essential part of the Superman costume. Or, if not the trunks themselves, they considered the color balance of the costume to be an essential part of the Superman costume, and that color balance is a lot harder to get without trunks than with them (and frankly, I think both DC and the MoS have failed to find that color balance sans trunks).But one thing that was made pretty clear by every attempt to get rid of the trunks? The essentials of the Superman costume were going to stay intact regardless.
What do you mean by "overall success", exactly? Smallville's success obviously never rested on the Superman suit. Nobody watched Smallville to see Superman in a superhero costume.The blue bodysuit, the red boots, the red cape, and the diamond S were going nowhere. And judging from the overall success of the Smallville Season 11 Supersuit, we know for a fact that Superman's costume can work just fine without the trunks.
I'm not saying that it equals that. Of course it doesn't. But the reasons for getting rid of it aren't that far off from reasons for getting rid of capes. Eventually you end up with a Jean/T-Shirt combo with the super-hero's logo on the shirt (like I said before, we've already seen this at least twice). That's certainly not what I want to see as a superhero costume.Insisting that losing an outdated element like trunks-over-tights = the abolishment of superhero costumes altogether is a bald-faced lie and you know it.
Last edited by Darth Joker; 12-14-2012 at 04:32 AM.
Their costumes still do reflect their bizarre nature. Sans trunks, Superman still wears an alien suit that disperses into the chest logo when not in use. Sans trunks, Batman's still a guy that wears a mask on his face complete with bat ears. Sans trunks, Green Lantern's costume is still a construct of a power ring that makes your imaginative thoughts solid matter. And so on and so forth. No costume redesigns of the New 52 threatens the bizarre and outlandish visual nature of the superhero comic book.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-14-2012 at 05:28 AM.
And yet despite them thinking about or trying to change it ultimately it didn't.
Smallville suit had the trunks on the outside. The comic (that I seriously doubt many of the people who watched Smallville collect) uses the trunksless look. More than likely because it coincides with the nu52 look. But you didn't hear anyone having a problem with the trunks on the suit for Smallville. Hell the thing that most fans wanted to see in the finale was Welling in the super suit. THE super suit. The one with the trunks.
Lastly I'd argue that the trunks is one of the essentials of the suit.
Last edited by R0NIN; 12-14-2012 at 05:31 AM.
I like swords.
I don't know what has you seriously doubting fans of Smallville the show are reading the book, but in any case you're incorrect in that assumption.. Its quite a popular title right now, many of those readers being fans of the show. And if anything I've seen more fans of that book arguing that its suit is the superior suit of any current incarnation in the comics, bet it new 52 or Earth 2 (I wouldn't agree there, but it shows they have little issue with it).
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-14-2012 at 05:36 AM.
I could be hypocritical though, because I think a belt looks weird because it feels tacked on / non functional, but there's a good chance the only way I don't feel the same about the trunks is because they've been around so long.
Superman's jeans and t-shirt is inconsequential. It's very purpose is a starter kit. A makeshift look before he gets his proper costume. A huge part of that first arc was just the anticipation alone of Superman getting his costume.
And I haven't ignored anything. I already pointed out earlier there was a brief fad in which certain characters went with a more street look. That would include Conner's jeans and t-shirt phase, and Linda's white t-shirt and skirt phase, and I count Morrison's X-Men going for more movie-like duds among that category as well. I never said such a redesign never happened for any character ever. But they were ventures few and far between, and lo and behold none of them lasted. The classic idea of a superhero costume was never in danger then. Just like it isn't now just because Superman's trunks are gone.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-14-2012 at 05:59 AM.
I like swords.
But you never know with comic books, either. I'm totally surprised by the popularity of THE WALKING DEAD. It's always hard to predict what is going to catch on--and when.
I never had an issue with the super-trunks, in fact, they made more sense to me than Batman's trunks because it worked from the whole "Kryptonian/alien fashion" angle. Batman, on the other hand, was just a guy that decided blue/black trunks looked cool.
But out of all the iconic super-suit staples; the blue suit, the red cape, the red boots, and the \S/; the red trunks are the one piece I can easily do without, which is why I'm fine with them going away. Removing any of those other elements, would be a bigger issue, imo.
DC: Batman Inc - Batman & Robin - Batman - Justice League - Justice League of America - A̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶C̶o̶m̶i̶c̶s̶
Batman fights death, and Superman fights the impossible - Grant Morrison
A lot of the other elements I liked have been removed. I admit that the reason I love all these elements so much is because as a kid I studied every detail of Superman and taught myself how to draw them. Maybe new kids are doing the same thing with the new Superman--I hope so--although there are some details on the Superman costumes from the movie and from the new 52 that would be hard for a little kid to master.
So some of my favourite things about Classic Superman:
The spit curl. Mastering how to draw that with just a few curved lines--one of my greatest challenges as a young artist.
The S with that bubble on the tail. The S has to have that bubble on the tail. I insist--this is the greatest thing about the S.
Belt loops. Again as a kid, it was a break through when I realized that doing belt loops is more about what you leave out than what you leave in. Of course, for Superman to have belt loops he needs both a belt and something to put the belt through--like trunks/shorts. And you don't put a belt on your underpants--I don't anyway--so the belt and the belt loops is what makes them shorts or trunks, not underpants (plus underpants are by definition what you wear under--to gird your loins--if you are a man with a pair).
The round belt buckle. No S, no clunky buckles. A beautifully simple round buckle that brings it all together.
The low neck line. This is one of Superman's coolest features. It automatically makes him look tough--and gives him a strong looking neck. I used to wonder about why Superman had such a low neckline on his outfit, when I was a kid. But there's no denying it works.
And with the low neck line goes the cape tucked into the costume. Drawing that part of the cape is a great challenge for a young artist. How to draw folds.
The all yellow S on the back of the cape. Another odd aspect of Superman--kind of by accident, since various coloured versions of the S on the back of the cape were tried out, before they settled on leaving it all yellow. And early Superman often had no S on the back of his cape. But then how do you know it's Superman from behind? Superman had to trademark his cape.
The v on the front of the red boots. In a scene where you just see all the Justice League's boots (which was standard, when you had The Atom in the classic JLA), it's important to distinguish one Leaguer's boots from the others. The v thing was Superman's--he owned that look.
The line strokes on Superman's arms and boots. I always wondered about those lines, when I was a kid, but there was no denying that this tapering worked to make the costume fit better.
Also, I preferred that Superman's boots not have heels on them. He doesn't really need extra support, because he has Super feet and he's flying most of the time. Making the boots look too heavy is counter productive for Superman flying, because it weighs down the figure visually.