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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen wacker View Post
    Fantastic Four #2.

    SW
    Do your own Crisis! You know you want to...

  2. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed1 View Post
    Thats not something thats remotely possible but...

    please proceed
    He can prove it in individual cases. Hell I can say that I fall into that category. Though I also think its a bad story as well. Even if any story that led to that outcome would not have pleased me.

    That being said, I am not sure what that would accomplish. They are ultimately only a small group of people.
    Last edited by charlesthehammer; 12-18-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  3. #468
    My Turn. Kevin Nichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Well, the 'people' I speak for are people that enjoy a well crafted, internally consistent story that respects the integrity of the characters, obeys the constraints of the world as set up by the author(s), and is consistent with the overall narrative of the work.

    Oh wait. I already said that.

    Maybe now I should keep debating on an internet forum with some random stranger, by repeating all of the ways in which One More Day is a sloppy, cheap solution to a narrative the the editorial staff at the time thought was not the direction they wanted to go in.

    So they just wiped it all out with a scenario that disrespected the integrity of the characters, pissed all over the primary motivations of the main protagonists, and broke the rules of the universe they had previously set up in the narrative of Spider-Man over the course of 30 or 40 years (or however long it was)

    Or maybe I shouldn't bother. Maybe you can't tell the difference.
    Well, I enjoy all of those things you mentioned and you clearly don't speak for me.

    But, yeah. Stay classy, bud.
    "Women... they come and go, but the Jonah is eternal." - ViewtifulJC

  4. #469
    My Turn. Kevin Nichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorRichard View Post
    Apologist was the correct term to use since the OP was describing folks who defend the merits of OMD. "People who liked OMD" is not correct in this context. There are several movies/tv shows/comic book stories I enjoy and don't defend the merits of since I realize they are pretty piss poor in quality, but happen to fit into my personal preference.
    For the record I personally enjoyed OMD, but can't find much defence for it in regards to creative merits. Even I realize it was a story crafted to push a status quo. I enjoy the status quo it pushed though.
    So you're going to stand behind the statement that anyone who likes any story is an apologist? And the word doesn't hold any negative connotation? And I certainly don't get why you say that "people who liked OMD" isn't correct.
    "Women... they come and go, but the Jonah is eternal." - ViewtifulJC

  5. #470
    One Hoopy Frood Schmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Nichols View Post
    Well, I enjoy all of those things you mentioned and you clearly don't speak for me.

    But, yeah. Stay classy, bud.
    Hey, you leave Von alone. If he goes away who will speak for the masses?!??! WHO!?!??!!
    Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without trying to invent any more of it.

    "First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you."

  6. #471
    One Hoopy Frood Schmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Smith View Post
    yeah.......Hubbs is the worst.
    HEY! Challenge accepted.
    Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without trying to invent any more of it.

    "First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you."

  7. #472
    My Turn. Kevin Nichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmed View Post
    Hey, you leave Von alone. If he goes away who will speak for the masses?!??! WHO!?!??!!
    Fair point. I hope I didn't offend humanity's ambassador.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmed View Post
    HEY! Challenge accepted.
    You win.
    "Women... they come and go, but the Jonah is eternal." - ViewtifulJC

  8. #473
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
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    No reason to get upset over "apologist"
    Just call Menshevik (or whoever) a marriage apologist since he doesn't mind the word.

  9. #474
    One Hoopy Frood Schmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Nichols View Post
    Fair point. I hope I didn't offend humanity's ambassador.
    Don't worry, all you have to do is apologize, publicly behead yourself and everything should be fine.
    Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without trying to invent any more of it.

    "First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you."

  10. #475
    My Turn. Kevin Nichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmed View Post
    Don't worry, all you have to do is apologize, publicly behead yourself and everything should be fine.
    I'll behead myself if I must, but I'm no apologist... or apologizer... or whatever.


    Crap! Von was right! I really DON'T know the difference!
    "Women... they come and go, but the Jonah is eternal." - ViewtifulJC

  11. #476
    One Hoopy Frood Schmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Nichols View Post
    I'll behead myself if I must, but I'm no apologist... or apologizer... or whatever.


    Crap! Von was right! I really DON'T know the difference!
    Less talking more beheading.
    Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without trying to invent any more of it.

    "First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you."

  12. #477

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    The answer is obviously yes.

  13. #478
    Literate Sasquatch Cryptid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Nichols View Post
    I know what the word means, but it does have a negative connotation in today's language. Just the fact that you feel the need to explain it kind of shows that. (I guess that makes you an apologist apologist.) Why not just say "people who liked OMD"? Otherwise you could just as easily say that anyone who likes any story is an apologist. Just seems kind of silly to me.
    Yes, I suppose I am an apologist for apologists, but the need for explanation might have something to do with the way that the negative opinion surrounding a story transfers to its defenders. You can't have an apologist without a controversy, actual or imagined, so it's a word that marks a precarious position but not necessarily an ignorant or ignoble one.

    Come to think of it, I'm not exactly an apologist for OMD. There are some nice panels from Quesada but the whole things feels kind of stilted. Meanwhile, I admire many of the stories that have followed and think that the current arc is enough fun that I'm willing to forego speculation about its long-term viability.

  14. #479
    My Turn. Kevin Nichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptid View Post
    Yes, I suppose I am an apologist for apologists, but the need for explanation might have something to do with the way that the negative opinion surrounding a story transfers to its defenders. You can't have an apologist without a controversy, actual or imagined, so it's a word that marks a precarious position but not necessarily an ignorant or ignoble one.

    Come to think of it, I'm not exactly an apologist for OMD. There are some nice panels from Quesada but the whole things feels kind of stilted. Meanwhile, I admire many of the stories that have followed and think that the current arc is enough fun that I'm willing to forego speculation about its long-term viability.
    I really do get what you're saying, but consider this: every story has some who like it and some who don't. I'll grant you that the split opinions of OMD are on a grander scale than many other stories, but to label its fans as apologists implies that the story is objectively bad (which clearly isn't true). It comes off as somewhat insulting because it labels people who think the story is good, and makes it seem as though they are hopelessly defending something that's bad.

    By the way, I appreciate your respectful replies. You can see that some on here don't have your tact.




    (I'm talking about Schmitty of course.)
    "Women... they come and go, but the Jonah is eternal." - ViewtifulJC

  15. #480
    Junior Member bluebottle's Avatar
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    I wonder if part of the Superior Spidey hooking up with MJ thing (Slott saying that Spidey and MJ would be back together, but it's not Parker) would lead to Superior Spidey stumbling across the deal with Mephesto...

    Would that make everyone happy? If Superior Spider-Man unearthed the deal with Mephesto and somehow managed to untangle it?

    Just curious.

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