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  1. #166
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Does anybody here follow 616 Spiderman? I don't personally, but I peeked at the spoil thread for #700 today because I was curious. Skimming the comments it seems there is a lot of disapproval on the new direction. It is probably the closest situation to what happened to Ult. Peter that I can think of so I thought it would be interesting to hear peoples reactions to this change compared to what happened to UU Peter. I mean Slott has received death threats supposedly because of what he is doing, I don't recall that happening to Bendis.
    Just read it. It's a nice story, but I'm dropping it. CAn't really comment it on this thread without spoiling
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  2. #167
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xistel View Post
    Just read it. It's a nice story, but I'm dropping it. CAn't really comment it on this thread without spoiling
    With out mentioning what happens, can you tell me how you feel with this vs. what happened with UU Peter? Angry, happy, bitter etc.
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  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by USERNAME TAKEN View Post
    I'm going by comments on this board, USA today boards (when the announcement was made) and yahoo boards. Not to mention comicbookmovie.com that was swamped by racist comments. Heck, some racist comments filtered through here on CBR but I'm pretty sure the mods here were more alert than those on this aforementioned websites (although yahoo message board feedback does generally contain a dose of homophobia and racism).

    I don't deny that some people didn't like the fact that Peter was changed (that falls into the 50% that I was referring too) but a huge amount of the furore came from the fact that a black kid was now Spider-man.

    Even Glenn Beck joined in the action and claimed that Michelle Obama was somehow responsible for the change. LOL.
    I still don't think it's fair to say that race is the primary reason that many USM fans do not like Miles. I'm an AARP-aged white Southern male and I would have been just fine if, when they had rebooted the character in the Ultimate Universe, they had started with Peter Parker as a black youth and re-imagined him that way. But I was very attached to young Peter Parker and I thought the way they treated the character (and by extension, his fans) was pretty bad. At this point, I would be thrilled if they rebooted the UU with a black Peter Parker. So long as it's Peter Parker. And so long as his adult male role-models aren't both former convicts (which, to me is the single most racist thing about the new USM).

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroid View Post
    I was very attached to young Peter Parker and I thought the way they treated the character (and by extension, his fans) was pretty bad.
    In what way? Peter died doing what he does - saving people from the bad guys.
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  5. #170
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    With out mentioning what happens, can you tell me how you feel with this vs. what happened with UU Peter? Angry, happy, bitter etc.
    well, I still feel it's every bit as unnecessary as USM death. The issue was good, you really feel like PP is running out of options etc, though some things felt rushed. I'm more of an Ult. Peter guy, so I was more affected when Ult. Peter died.

    I was introduced to Marvel through 616 Peter, but I really invested in Ult. Peter.

    Again, it's not something that had to happen. I'm sure 616 Peter will come back in time for the next movie.

    I get the whole death thing in comics. The problem is that in 616 it's as common as waking up (I'm not the least worried about 616 Peter's death, just like I wasn't with Johnny Storms death) and in UU they felt like being the polar opposite. I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle. Maybe don't kill as often, make it count (this does not mean stay dead) and don't let it become meaningless as it is in the 616 world right now. The whole problem comes from creative teams looking for shock value instead of story value way to often.

    While we are on the subject, I feel the whole Marvel NOW initiative is kind of a flop creatively. I don't really feel a difference. I feel it's just trying to get attention, the way new52 did. The difference is that new52 actually brought good things like a streamlined continuity, a (much needed) facelift etc.

    Marvel NOW is just fireworks so far.
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  6. #171
    Junior Member toddx77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    In what way?



    They announce big events happening in their comics all the time. Why is it automatically 'political correctness' when it involves a non-white character?
    For starters every year at Christmas time we always have a problem with just being able to use the word Christmas or having the call the Easter Bunny the Spring Bunny lol.

    I didnt start reading Marvel and DC comics until 2007 but major story changing events weren't announced before they happened. We weren't told Peter and MJ's marriage would be sold to the devil, Captain Americas death, Batmans death, Wasps death, Norman Osborn running SHIELD, Bucky Becoming Captain America, Dick becoming Batman, Who was a skrull , and Kitty Pride getting lost in space although that one was spoiled in Uncanny X-men due to Giant Size Astonishing X-Men being delayed. Yes some of those things could have easily been figured out but atleast Marvel and DC didn't feel the need to announce those events to the press.


    Quote Originally Posted by SayOcean View Post
    Lol damn dude....how does Miles look like Obama?
    You don't see it? He doesn't look exactly like Obama but I see a little bit of Obama in his eyes and hair lol. And no I am not quoting Glenn Beck when I say he looks like Obama.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddx77 View Post
    For starters every year at Christmas time we always have a problem with just being able to use the word Christmas or having the call the Easter Bunny the Spring Bunny lol.
    Absolute horseshit. The only problem anyone has at Christmas time is thin-skinned right-wing fundy Fox News-watching fuckwits frothing at the mouth about the non-existent "War On Christmas" because somebody somewhere said "Happy holidays" to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by toddx77 View Post
    I didnt start reading Marvel and DC comics until 2007 but major story changing events weren't announced before they happened. We weren't told Peter and MJ's marriage would be sold to the devil, Captain Americas death, Batmans death, Wasps death, Norman Osborn running SHIELD, Bucky Becoming Captain America, Dick becoming Batman, Who was a skrull , and Kitty Pride getting lost in space although that one was spoiled in Uncanny X-men due to Giant Size Astonishing X-Men being delayed. Yes some of those things could have easily been figured out but atleast Marvel and DC didn't feel the need to announce those events to the press.
    Again, you are saying things that are not true. The deaths of both Captain America and Batman were covered in the mainstream media. As was the wedding of Spider-Man, but that was before your time. I don't have links for that one because the Internet hadn't been invented yet, but trust me, it was huge. The rest of the events you listed probably weren't given any attention in the mainstream media because, outside of comics, nobody cares.
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  8. #173
    Junior Member toddx77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Absolute horseshit. The only problem anyone has at Christmas time is thin-skinned right-wing fundy Fox News-watching fuckwits frothing at the mouth about the non-existent "War On Christmas" because somebody somewhere said "Happy holidays" to them.



    Again, you are saying things that are not true. The deaths of both Captain America and Batman were covered in the mainstream media. As was the wedding of Spider-Man, but that was before your time. I don't have links for that one because the Internet hadn't been invented yet, but trust me, it was huge. The rest of the events you listed probably weren't given any attention in the mainstream media because, outside of comics, nobody cares.
    No I meant the deaths of Captain America and Batman being covered before they happened. I know the media covered them after they happened but I don't remember the media covering their deaths before they happened. I know Spider-Mans wedding was covered but I was referring to One More Day. Marvel didn't tell us that Peter and MJ would sell their marriage to Mephisto a month or so before the actual issue came out.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddx77 View Post
    No I meant the deaths of Captain America and Batman being covered before they happened. I know the media covered them after they happened but I don't remember the media covering their deaths before they happened. I know Spider-Mans wedding was covered but I was referring to One More Day. Marvel didn't tell us that Peter and MJ would sell their marriage to Mephisto a month or so before the actual issue came out.
    Oh.

    So?
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  10. #175
    Junior Member toddx77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Oh.

    So?
    Marvel never told us those big reveals before they happened but they did tell us that Miles was going to be the new Ultimate Spider-Man before Peter even died. And that is the main reason why I think Miles got so much hate. Marvel felt the need to tell us about him so far in advance then just let us find out about him on our own in Ultimate Fallout 4.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddx77 View Post
    Marvel never told us those big reveals before they happened but they did tell us that Miles was going to be the new Ultimate Spider-Man before Peter even died. And that is the main reason why I think Miles got so much hate. Marvel felt the need to tell us about him so far in advance then just let us find out about him on our own in Ultimate Fallout 4.
    It's political correctness gone mad!
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  12. #177
    Senior Member ShadowBoxing's Avatar
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    I've just had trouble getting into his character. At all. His origin was too much like Peter Parker's, and half the time I feel as though I'm reading Peter Parker stories, except all the names have been changed. He also just seems like a Miguel O'Hara, who I rather liked, but you just don't think of as the real Spider-Man. If the Spider-Man reboot had starred Doug Glover, then this would've had some teeth behind it, but here we are a year later, and Miles already feels like a D-Lister. He probably will end up being some forgotten side show anyways. That's what I never liked. It never seemed like it would ever amount to much, and in my estimation it really hasn't. Tune in to the cartoon and it's about Peter Parker, you watch the movie and it's about Peter Parker, and still most merchandise and toys features good ole' Petey. It's really hard for me to swallow Marvel self-aggrandized view that they did minorities some great service by writing a Miles Morales book with no teeth behind it.

    It would also help Miles if he weren't so boring, and the Ultimate Universe wasn't an irrelevant piece of nonsense.

    It's funny to me that DC really outdoes Marvel in the minority heroes department, both when they act as replacements or when they are their own unique character.
    Last edited by ShadowBoxing; 12-28-2012 at 01:09 PM.

  13. #178
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddx77 View Post
    Marvel never told us those big reveals before they happened but they did tell us that Miles was going to be the new Ultimate Spider-Man before Peter even died. And that is the main reason why I think Miles got so much hate. Marvel felt the need to tell us about him so far in advance then just let us find out about him on our own in Ultimate Fallout 4.
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  14. #179
    Pirate King MB99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBoxing View Post
    I've just had trouble getting into his character. At all. His origin was too much like Peter Parker's, and half the time I feel as though I'm reading Peter Parker stories, except all the names have been changed. He also just seems like a Miguel O'Hara, who I rather liked, but you just don't think of as the real Spider-Man. If the Spider-Man reboot had starred Doug Glover, then this would've had some teeth behind it, but here we are a year later, and Miles already feels like a D-Lister. He probably will end up being some forgotten side show anyways. That's what I never liked. It never seemed like it would ever amount to much, and in my estimation it really hasn't. Tune in to the cartoon and it's about Peter Parker, you watch the movie and it's about Peter Parker, and still most merchandise and toys features good ole' Petey. It's really hard for me to swallow Marvel self-aggrandized view that they did minorities some great service by writing a Miles Morales book with no teeth behind it.

    It would also help Miles if he weren't so boring, and the Ultimate Universe wasn't an irrelevant piece of nonsense.

    It's funny to me that DC really outdoes Marvel in the minority heroes department, both when they act as replacements or when they are their own unique character.
    I disagree big time that DC does minority heroes better than Marvel, especially since the reboot. They ruined Static and Mr. Terrific. Blue Beetle was bad. They've been recycling the same story for John Stewart since Johns took over Green Lantern (Jonh kills someone/something and then feels guilty about it. They have seriously used this plot line 3 times). Cyborg has gone over a year in the Justice League not really doing anything. Batwing has fallen into obscurity really fast, much more than Miles has. Katanna and Vibe look well intentioned but don't seem to have what it takes to last. Simon Baz looks promising so I'll give them that. I'll also give them Alan Scott and Hawkgirl in Earth 2. The only area that I think DC actually has Marvel beat in is Female lead solo books.

  15. #180
    No time for white drama Ballard Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBoxing View Post
    His origin was too much like Peter Parker's, and half the time I feel as though I'm reading Peter Parker stories, except all the names have been changed.
    Their similarities stop at being bitten my Oscorp Spiders and being Spider-Man. Everything about Miles is completely and utterly different from Peter; he's not an orphan, he doesn't live with his aunt and uncle, he's not a boy-genius, he never used his powers to make a profit, etc., etc., etc. Miles stories are his own because they subscribe to the issues in his life and his ordeals as Spider-Man, not Peter's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBoxing View Post
    He also just seems like a Miguel O'Hara, who I rather liked, but you just don't think of as the real Spider-Man.
    Both O'Hara and Morales are the real Spider-Man, but, what they aren't, is Peter Parker. If you're gonna go with this line of thought, the mantle of Spider-Man/Spider-Girl/Woman doesn't belong to Ben Riley, Mayday Parker, Anya Corazon, Jessica Drew and Ashley Barton because they're not Peter Parker.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBoxing View Post
    If the Spider-Man reboot had starred Doug Glover, then this would've had some teeth behind it, but here we are a year later, and Miles already feels like a D-Lister. He probably will end up being some forgotten side show anyways. That's what I never liked. It never seemed like it would ever amount to much, and in my estimation it really hasn't. Tune in to the cartoon and it's about Peter Parker, you watch the movie and it's about Peter Parker, and still most merchandise and toys features good ole' Petey. It's really hard for me to swallow Marvel self-aggrandized view that they did minorities some great service by writing a Miles Morales book with no teeth behind it.
    Do you mean Donald Glover? There isn't a character or person named Doug Glover in connection to anything with Spider-Man. And I think your problem is that you were never willing to give Miles a chance because all you want is Peter. Your entire commentary can be boiled down to "Not Peter, Don't Like it", when the point of the matter is, Spider-Man can and has focused on so much more than Peter Parker; point in case, 2099, Spider-Girl (both volume) and Scarlet Spider. Miles is far from what you can describe as a "D-Lister" and Marvel is hardly any more self-important about itself than it was when it was peddling Peter as the hero of Ultimate or 616 Marvel.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowBoxing View Post
    It's funny to me that DC really outdoes Marvel in the minority heroes department, both when they act as replacements or when they are their own unique character.
    They're neck and neck and on the same problematic ship of representing and using POC characters just about, which is no good at all. Miles is an exception, not the rule to minority representation/use.

    And, boring Miles is not. As I said in another thread discussing a Minority superhero:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballard Blues View Post


    If I had a dollar for everytime a Black Superhero was called "generic" or "uninteresting", I'd be richer than Donald Trump and Oprah combined.
    It always amuses me that Superheroes of Color are labeled as boring, generic, uninteresting, "not the real [insert name here]" whenever they're brought to the forefront or considered remotely important in a title.
    Last edited by Ballard Blues; 12-28-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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