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  1. #61
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    Thank you. I've been meaning to make an account here, for a while. I've been "in the shadows" (no matter how I say that, it still sounds creepy) for the better half of 3 years now.



    My skill with "copy and paste", is unmatched.
    it's okay, I lurked for a while too, so don't feel like a weirdo

    or do, and let's make a club
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  2. #62
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    Have you seen the complaints about Morrison's work?


    It's not a given, dude.

    On this subject, you're right

    my friend and I for example like batman

    he HATES any grant morrison batman work, except for JLA b/c that's bat god. He hates morrison's work cause it's too dense, and has almost lead to a fistfight between us.
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  3. #63
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
    On this subject, you're right

    my friend and I for example like batman

    he HATES any grant morrison batman work, except for JLA b/c that's bat god. He hates morrison's work cause it's too dense, and has almost lead to a fistfight between us.
    LOL

    I've heard the same. And that complaint is used for Alan Moore's work too.

    Those fans... I guess are more into more straight forward works?
    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."


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  4. #64
    R.I.P. Dwayne McDuffie Greg Anderson's Avatar
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    Remember, sales that we see in charts are due to orders from retailers. It doesn't actually indicate how much people are buying until a few issues in when shops have to adjust to what is really selling or not.
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  5. #65
    Elder Member Froggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    LOL

    I've heard the same. And that complaint is used for Alan Moore's work too.

    Those fans... I guess are more into more straight forward works?
    I guess but then again I like straight up punchfests as much as the next guy, but even then Moore and Morrison know how valuable the slugfest is


    but yeah I like Miles, and he's got quite a few Parker-esque qualities, esp since they're both mad nerdy
    they label me a villain cause of how I express my feelings

  6. #66
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Anderson View Post
    Remember, sales that we see in charts are due to orders from retailers. It doesn't actually indicate how much people are buying until a few issues in when shops have to adjust to what is really selling or not.
    And that's why I think the market needs to aim more for digital comics. Or just stop relying on freakin' Diamond.


    LCBS shouldn't be the ones controlling sales. The consumers should be.
    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."


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  7. #67
    R.I.P. Dwayne McDuffie Greg Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    And that's why I think the market needs to aim more for digital comics. Or just stop relying on freakin' Diamond.


    LCBS shouldn't be the ones controlling sales. The consumers should be.
    It one reason as to why I blame retailers for Dr Voodoo's initial low sales. I went to many shops in NYC and was hearing how it was sold out very damn fast from their orders. Then I heard from multiple folks from message boards and other places that their shops didn't even order the first few issues of the book. When my LCS tried to order more orders for readers who missed out, none of the orders were ever coming in.
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  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Anderson View Post
    It one reason as to why I blame retailers for Dr Voodoo's initial low sales. I went to many shops in NYC and was hearing how it was sold out very damn fast from their orders. Then I heard from multiple folks from message boards and other places that their shops didn't even order the first few issues of the book. When my LCS tried to order more orders for readers who missed out, none of the orders were ever coming in.
    The problem is, the books that always seem to sell out are the ones that are good, and that haven't gotten the attention they deserve. So then when they do sell out and no one is able to buy them, there's this idea that they didn't sell well. I ran into this problem more than once on Journey into Mystery and Thunderbolts.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Anderson View Post
    Remember, sales that we see in charts are due to orders from retailers. It doesn't actually indicate how much people are buying until a few issues in when shops have to adjust to what is really selling or not.
    Which makes it even more scary that it is going down like that. It means stores are ordering less and less.
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  10. #70
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
    Which makes it even more scary that it is going down like that. It means stores are ordering less and less.
    And it's not like they don't have ulterior motives( I use to frequent a shop where if the owner didn't like a book he wouldn't order it unless he was forced to and even then he'd try to talk people out of getting that book ) or because people just assume they can walk in and grab a issue( this is one of the main reasons publishers will tell you to start a pull list )

  11. #71
    Senior Member Chris S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    And it's not like they don't have ulterior motives( I use to frequent a shop where if the owner didn't like a book he wouldn't order it unless he was forced to and even then he'd try to talk people out of getting that book ) or because people just assume they can walk in and grab a issue( this is one of the main reasons publishers will tell you to start a pull list )
    Oh so now we have gone into conspiracy theories on this book? Stores would intentionally under order a Bendis book? Ha that makes me laugh.
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  12. #72
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    First of all welcome Booshman, very nice post, as well Spike-X would you know where we could take a look at the electronic sales numbers or does marvel not post those ?

    Though I would agree with you Chris S. but even I have seen retailers personal biase against certain either comic books or brands, I know one retailer that had everything DC in the back behind everything while marvel was all up front as soon as you walk thru the door

  13. #73
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    I've deleted more than 40 posts on this thread. Keep things civil, or the thread will be closed.
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

    I also buy: Captain America, Avengers, FF, New Avengers, X-Factor, among others

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSparkplug View Post
    BASIC GOOGLE SEARCH!
    I promise you, I spent an hour and a half looking through every example everyone here presented me with. Bollard Blues had been literally the only poster to offer any. He gave me some things to search in Google and it lead me to threads from this Ultimate Board. I took my time to look through them, and yet all I saw were thousands of posters complaining about racism, without anyone actually being racist.

    FINALLY! Someone has actually resonded offering a link to supposed racial hatred towards Miles. Now that the evidence has been presented, I can look through each article on the link and see if anyone's been racist.

    (To All that have argued with me: This is all I asked for. You kept on having a go at me, insulting me and my intelligence, all while ignoring my request for a link to some racial hatred towards Miles. This is debate, not a childish game of competetive wit. Can we stick to the facts, please).

    Below are some articles in which CBR believes to be racist. I will go through each one individually and see whether they are or not. And of course, you are all free to argue my point of view, it's just that, now we actually have something to go on. Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal
    Spider-Man goes multicultural; Oprah gets an Oscar; Rachel Maddow extends MSNBC contract…

    New Spider-Man Goes Multicultural: In Marvel Comics’ “Ultimate Fallout” No. 4 , Peter Parker is dead and Spider-Man’s powers are given to Miles Morales, a character who is Black and Hispanic, according to The Associated Press. “He’s younger than Peter Parker, he’s coming from a completely different background, a completely different world view,” the comic’s writer, Brian Michael Bendis, said about the character. The comic book will be available in stores today. The Ultimate imprint is an alternate world from Marvel’s regular universe, where Parker is still alive and fighting crime.[AP]

    Oprah Winfrey to Receive an Oscar: Former talk show queen Oprah Winfrey is getting an honorary Oscar. Winfrey, the current CEO of OWN, will be awarded the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian award for her work with the Angel Network and an all-girls school in South Africa. Winfrey has had big-screen roles in films like “The Color Purple” and “Beloved” and production credits in movies like “Precious.” Winfrey will be honored along with James Earl Jones at an early ceremony on Nov. 12. [E! Online]

    Rachel Maddow Extends MSNBC Contract: Rachel Maddow is extending her contract with MSNBC. The political commentator has signed a multi-year contact with the network and the new deal is expected to go well beyond the elections in 2012, according to The Hollywood Reporter. [THR]
    Nothing in this is racist. Not even potentially so.

    CBR, I think you're greatly exaggerating the topic of racism and diversity.

    Quote Originally Posted by USA Today
    We have an African-American president, so why not an African-American Spider-Man, too?

    Revealed in Marvel Comics' Ultimate Fallout Issue 4, out Wednesday, the new Spider-Man in the Ultimate universe is a half-black, half-Hispanic teen named Miles Morales. He takes over the gig held by Peter Parker, who was killed in Ultimate Spider-Man Issue 160 in June.

    In his first appearance, he simply breaks up a fight. But readers will learn the true origin of Morales and how he became the new Spider-Man when Ultimate Spider-Man relaunches in September with a new No. 1 issue.

    "The theme is the same: With great power comes great responsibility," says writer Brian Michael Bendis. "He's going to learn that. Then he has to figure out what that means."

    MORE: A TV comedy helped keep new Spidey's creator inspired


    The new Ultimate Spider-Man series, as well as Wednesday's Ultimate Fallout issue, will be available digitally the same day as in stores.

    In the regular Marvel Universe, Peter Parker will still be the same web-swinging Spidey as he has been since his first appearance in 1962. But in the Ultimate line, launched in 2000 to tell contemporary stories, he received a new origin and a reimagined supporting cast that paralleled the Spidey in regular Marvel continuity.

    Morales' journey will be a similar vehicle for today's fans, says Marvel's editor in chief, Axel Alonso.

    "What you have is a Spider-Man for the 21st century who's reflective of our culture and diversity. We think that readers will fall in love with Miles Morales the same way they fell in love with Peter Parker."

    In addition to an alliterative name, Miles has a connection to his predecessor in how he received his powers. But he will have different abilities, too. Supporting characters such as Peter's Aunt May and Gwen Stacy also will give Miles nuggets of wisdom to help his transition from young kid to New York City superhero.

    Italian artist Sara Pichelli, who was integral in designing the new Spider-Man's look, says, "Maybe sooner or later a black or gay — or both — hero will be considered something absolutely normal."
    Again, nothing in this article is racist. But I suppose Pichelli's opinion may feel a little off to some people, I'll admit. She says with Miles Morales she hopes black and gay people are considered normal. "But they are normal, Pichelli!" I can imagine some posters saying. But in a way, considering the controversy surrounding the fact that Miles is Black, she is not wrong to point out what she did. If people are behaving like it isn't normal, then she's right to say that hopefully it will eventually be seen as normal. You see what I mean?

    Still, it certainly isn't racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Weekly
    Apparently, half-human, half-spider wasn't diverse/culturally cutting-edge enough for Marvel Comics' most revered superhero.

    Sorry, Peter Parker: In its "Ultimate" line of Spider-Man adventures, Marvel is looking to do like Beyonce and "Upgrade U" (or, more accurately, kill u off) for a world-weary, street-smart blacktino kid named Miles Morales, perhaps to expand their consumer base outside white nerds who live with their grandparents.

    And as for you, Hollywood:

    Time to open the Spider-Man casting call from pasty crackers like Toby Maguire and Kirsten Dunst to the brave new world of black and brown. (Much in the brave new tradition of cartoon character Princess Tiana, a Disney doll from the Louisiana bayou.)

    Afrohispanos are more common in New York than Los Angeles, as the East Coast Latino population more heavily hails from pre-mixed countries like Cuba and Puerto Rico. But here are the top -- OK, and only -- Hollywood actors who could play Morales:

    Lloyd Banks. Tyson Beckford. Kid Cudi. (Yeah, we know -- pickings are slim.)

    "When the opportunity arose to create a new Spider-Man, we knew it had to be a character that represents the diversity -- in background and experience -- of the twenty-first century," says Axel Alonso, Marvel editor in chief, in the press release on Morales.

    And writer Brian Michael Bendis tells the Associated Press: "He's younger than Peter Parker, he's coming from a completely different background, a completely different world view."

    Joke website "Haha, JK!" rushes to poke easy fun at Bendis' brainstorming process (and, uh, Spidey's impressive new undie bulge):

    "We took a field trip to a different neighborhood, but we left because we didn't feel comfortable," they false-quote him as saying.

    Heh. But in all seriousness: Does this reek of desperate, hasty diversification for the sake of superstar PR? We will say this: The fact that Marvel officials haven't identified Morales as anything beyond half-black, half-Latino, which could mean a million things in America, isn't a good starting point.
    THIS!!

    I concede. This is actually fairly potentially racist. The article uses slang like "U" instead of "You", to associate the reader to a (rather stupid) theory that because the book has a black kid as the main antagonist, it's suddenly, street-smart and more developed. In a way, this could be considered racist to anyone who isn't black.

    I don't mind the phrase "Blacktino". I personally don't think that's racist. However. What is somewhat potentially racist is how the article sort of mocks Marvel's decision to have a black character as the main character of a book. So yeah, that's kind of racist. Funny though, how this is the only racist thing I've seen about Miles.

    (There were two other articles that CBR reffered to. I will go into them in a seperate post. But neverthelsss, the entire race issue has been massively blown out of proportion IMO. It shouldn't even be an issue).
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 12-10-2012 at 10:24 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSparkplug
    I remember seeing this article when it came out. THIS is a direct reaction to how the news was taken. It has links to many other articles about it. Granted, 2 of the links have since become broken and the mods heavily bombed the racism in the comments section of each article (As they should and I remember seeing all those comments), but remnants are still very much there. Meanwhile, you can find a plethora of screencaps of racist comments if you bother to look, and the article even links to some.
    And thankyou very much for being constructive and actually postng evidence of what you believe to be racism. You're the only poster who actually did that. I've only looked at three out five of those articles Marvel quoted, and only one out of the three was ever so slightly demeaning and potentially insulting. But still. You proved me wrong. I asked for one example and (even though IMO it was fairly harmless) that is what you've given me.

    So we've got one example of a potentially racist remark and that's from LA Weekly. Looks like there actually was a tad bit of racism going on when Miles debuted.

    SuperSparkplug, it annoyed me when you said "if you had bothered to look." I looked last night for about an hour and a half and couldn't find anything!! You're the only poster that actually presented an example of racism!!

    I don't like there being any racism about the topic, and not everyone who doesn't like Miles is a racist, but if you're going to insist that it doesn't somewhat exist here, please shut up because you clearly have little idea of what racism is.
    I insisted that I hadn't seen any. If you guys aren't going to offer any examples of racism, you can shut up. It's as simple as that.

    And now you have. So I concede. One example from LA weekly. And I did ask for just one example, so that's fair.

    Have I been unfair in this discusson? No. I've simply evaluated the facts and that is all.

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