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  1. #196
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    A brilliant issue as usual. By this point, I really feel that the whole 'Death of the Family' is literal...no one will physically 'die' (which in itself would be a nice twist for a Joker story), but the 'family' will be destroyed. Wonder how this will affect the other Bat-books, especially Morrison's story over in Batman Inc...

    My favorite part of the issue is undoubtedly the flashback scene. It feels like a story from the 70's comics, or maybe an episode of the animated series...the whole blimp caper reads like a classic Joker moment (though it also doubles as a reference to the '89 film). The big 'reveal' though was kinda anti-climactic; I expected the great secret from the past to have something to do with the story from Batman # 0 and the cliffhanger of the Red Hood Gang planning to burn down Bruce Wayne's townhouse. Who knows...perhaps that WILL tie in to this story somewhere down the line...

    The hallucination about Alfred-as-Joker was...chilling. Nuff said!

    The Riddler back-up was interesting, as is the whole notion that the Joker views Gotham as a kingdom and is assigning various character their 'roles' within that kingdom. Joker is literally remaking to align with his perception of Batman and the entire Batman 'universe' and that I think is a really intriguing idea which I'm looking forward to seeing Snyder explore further.

  2. #197
    Da?!?!?! bobbyraw's Avatar
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    Wow. I think I might actually have to drop Batman. I've tried to get into it, best everything so far (new52) has been mediocre at best (and often far worse).

  3. #198
    Senior Member Jake Fury's Avatar
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    I found the whole Arkham thing a bit ubelievable, especially with the amount of time Bruce has spent there in the new 52. Feels like he was just there the other day with Cyborg & Superman.

    Overall, the issue was pretty alright despite that. Capullo continues to knock it out of the park with his artwork. The secret didn't blow me away but I'll read the issue again and probably enjoy it more.
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  4. #199
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    The very best thing I can say about this issue: I really like Snyder's Harvey Bullock dialogue.

    Other than that, Batman & Robin 15, was better.
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  5. #200
    New Member HeroComplex's Avatar
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    If Joker had been into the cave at some point (way early in Batman's career), why did Joker wait until now to talk about this "secret" and/or to exploit this knowledge? Also if the card had merely fallen off the Bat-boat within the cave, how would Joker know for sure that Bruce had even seen it? The more I think about it, the less enamored I am with it.

    Also, I don't see how a card left in the cave can be an Earth-shattering secret to keep from your allies (there has to be more to it), as none of them were around as it was.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroComplex View Post
    If Joker had been into the cave at some point (way early in Batman's career), why did Joker wait until now to talk about this "secret" and/or to exploit this knowledge?
    Same old explanation : Joker does not care about who's behind the mask, he only cares about Batman. So for most of the later's career, the Joker never felt that he had to use that knowledge. But now, he's pissed that his 'king' has become soft, and he wants to get rid of his 'family'. And so he feels like using that knowledge to accomplish this goal.

  7. #202
    Gigantic Member ispacehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    ...there's no way that would work, and any attempt and making it do so would be 'uber-contrivance'.
    You're right, that would just be bad writing. (...more bad writing that is. )



    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    And referencing something from 5 or 6 years ago as some sort of 'clue' is...odd(?)
    See previous comment.

  8. #203
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroComplex View Post
    If Joker had been into the cave at some point (way early in Batman's career), why did Joker wait until now to talk about this "secret" and/or to exploit this knowledge? Also if the card had merely fallen off the Bat-boat within the cave, how would Joker know for sure that Bruce had even seen it? The more I think about it, the less enamored I am with it.
    He's been back since then, had a wander around, killed and skinned a bat, saw the giant replica of the card and realised that Bat-king wuvs him(!)...

    Also, I don't see how a card left in the cave can be an Earth-shattering secret to keep from your allies (there has to be more to it), as none of them were around as it was.
    Well, if your 'greatest enemy' knows who you are and you haven't told your allies (or, apparently, acknowledged it yourself)...

    I don't think this is 'the secret', though. As for this card being the 'calling card'...meh...


    As I said in an earlier post, finding the cave and being in the cave doesn't mean you know Batman is Bruce Wayne.

  9. #204
    Member Seattle Freeze's Avatar
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    I don't understand why everyone was so upset about the card and not trusting Batman's explanation about how it got there. After all this time and all he has doen for them, they don't trust him on this? Especially batgirl, she was shot by Joker because of being Gordon's daughter NOT because of being Batgirl so why would she think her mom was kidnapped because of being her daughter and NOT for being Gordon's wife? I mean, the reason she was even there was because of her brother, NOT Joker.

    I did enjoy Jason's attitude that was even expressed in how he was leaning against the wall with his arms folded. Though I am still curious about when Bruce started to let Jason into his inner circle again.

    I thought this was a great issue. I also feel like the creative team of batman is doing a far better job than the creative team of The Dark Knight in telling a dark and twisted villain tale. This issue reinforced my resolve to drop Dark Knight because Batman is SO good.
    Chill!

  10. #205
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    I was a fan of the arc, until this issue; it sucked. Enough with the crossovers - it's too much baggage for a writer to do anything special.

    The Bat-family conversation was torture. You can't convince me Batman - freaking Batman! - hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt from his little underlings?! And Batman - freaking Batman! - is going to pander to it?

    I was really excited about what Snyder was attempting to do here: paint a Joker with as much to lose as Batman. But, this issue was a chore to read and, again, the Bat-family is too much baggage to pack into one issue. This issue was simply a meeting point for everyone in the crossover, and, in the context of Snyder's story, useless.
    Last edited by Concept Coop; 12-13-2012 at 08:40 AM.

  11. #206
    Gigantic Member ispacehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylenoljones View Post
    Glad I could help. Today was indeed a sad day, but cheer up:

    The arc isn't over yet. I'm confident the ending will be... um...

    I'm gonna stop now.
    I got all hopeful for a second.

    Joker finds Batman funny. That's about as close to love as it gets.
    Exactly. He loves to put Batman through hell so he can watch. (and laugh as the hilarity ensues.)

    I didn't have a problem with Joker's supposed love as much as I did with Bruce somehow seeing it in his eyes, in that very pseudo-scientific "I know all about eyes and will now tell you about it for a full page" fashion.
    Right, I think that even if Joker did "love" Batman it would be a non issue. He seems to be giving it an awful lot of thought though, as the whole study of eye motion thing just led us to that. Maybe he's considering hooking up.

    To be fair, we don't know that Snyder meant "love" love, maybe he just meant like, the love of a subject for his king. Yeah, I know that's not really any better, but it's not quite as silly maybe.

  12. #207
    Gigantic Member ispacehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concept Coop View Post

    The Bat-family conversation was torture.
    Absolutely. As bad as the rest of the issue was, that was the worst.

  13. #208
    Senior Member Choppa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    A brilliant issue as usual. By this point, I really feel that the whole 'Death of the Family' is literal...no one will physically 'die' (which in itself would be a nice twist for a Joker story), but the 'family' will be destroyed. Wonder how this will affect the other Bat-books, especially Morrison's story over in Batman Inc...
    Wouldn't that make it a figurative death and not a literal one?
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  14. #209
    Senior Member ViewtifulJC's Avatar
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  15. #210
    My Opinion > Your Opinion maxpower00044's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC View Post

    Hahahaha, that's awesome.

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