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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P. Sartre View Post
    You can the same with minis but in a more precise and to the point way without much filler or having to stretch things out.
    You call it 'filler' I call it 'depth'. I call it 'color'. I call it 'ideas'.

    You simply can't put the content of Doom Patrol into Flex. You just can't. Doom Patrol is a much richer, fuller work. You may see it as riddled with digressions and irrelevancies, but I'd say that was as often the point. I can say that I got more enjoyment out of that run than anything else I've ever read, and a lot of that came from the sheer number of things it made me consider, and research.
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  2. #47
    Senior Member ViewtifulJC's Avatar
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    I like Doom Patrol more then Flex Mentallo
    I like WE3 more than Invisibles

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P. Sartre View Post
    No, the revived HoS from early 00s.
    Ah, I was thinking of House of Mystery.

    You're talking about the Seagle/Kristianson thing. Meh, not very memorable for me.

    Those two, Sand and Invisibles, I have the upmost respect and would add them if I had to do a CBR list, but they felt me cold and had to slog through them.
    Wow.
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  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC View Post
    I like Doom Patrol more then Flex Mentallo
    I like WE3 more than Invisibles
    Well, there you go. I found We3 to be very enjoyable, but ultimately popcorn light stuff, compared to the far superior invisibles (and Filth, for that matter).
    Check out my New Blog! Just a random assortment of ideas, thoughts, and reviews!

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  5. #50
    Senior Member ViewtifulJC's Avatar
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    I get the cold complaint for Sandman and it's literary stuffiness

    ...but the Invisibles?

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P. Sartre View Post
    No, the revived HoS from early 00s.

    Those two, Sand and Invisibles, I have the upmost respect and would add them if I had to do a CBR list, but they left me cold and had to slog through them.
    Rarely see this with the Sandman.
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  7. #52
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    I'm talking in general terms, Desaad.

    I would take DP over Flex but overall I'd take a mini over ongoing any day in the of week. Same goes with literature, give me a poem/short story.

    Just those forms demand the writer or creative team to be on their highest and tell their story without bullshit..
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  8. #53
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC View Post
    I get the cold complaint for Sandman and it's literary stuffiness

    ...but the Invisibles?
    Mixture of the art jam, characters and some arcs.

    I got more enjoyment out of Sandman than Invisibles.
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  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    Transmetro is hardly best Vertigo
    HERESY! I hereby sentence you to death by bowel disruptor.

  10. #55

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    After reading the article properly, I have to say that I hate seeing Gaiman's, Gorben's, Mina's and Morrison's names but not Diggle and Jenkins and artists like Bermejo, Bradstreet, Camuncoli, Frusin, McKean and Phillips in the Hellblazer section.

    And heh @ Sandman issue 447.
    Last edited by Billy Batson; 12-07-2012 at 04:03 PM.
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  11. #56
    More human than human. Johnny P. Sartre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    Wow.
    Maybe if I were to word it like this:

    When I first read them, I enjoyed them but didn't care for them. After reading and hear rave reviews about them, I decided to look at research (I'm not the smartest guy in the world) of those series and see what was underneath them. I learned a lot about them and went back and re-read them. While my personal enjoyment grew, they still didn't grab me and still made me feel cold.

    Now does that take away from their towering achievements? No. Hell, if someone asked me for a top list for comics to read, they would be in their because of what they done and accomplished (I wholly respect and acknowledge that) but they just didn't reach me.

    That list of mine that is of personal enjoyment, not technical achievements; Sandman and Invisibles didn't reach in at that level.
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  12. #57

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    this is the second top ten Vertigo list without Scalped. THat i think is a big mistake. I would also add my vote for Sandman Mystery Theatre. I know why it is left of the list but both those titles delivered solid art and story month after month.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    You call it 'filler' I call it 'depth'. I call it 'color'. I call it 'ideas'.
    I call it, basically, the difference between a novel and a short story. Both are valid forms, and each can do things the other can't.

  14. #59
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    I'm a big fan of Peter Gross, so I'm a bit disappointed in not seeing either Books of Magic or Lucifer make the list.

  15. #60
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    Funny thing: I was just sorting out my back issues the other day; happy to say that I've got nearly all of these series in the original singles (I'm missing 2 of the latter part of Moore's Swamp Thing run and I've managed to misplace 3 issues of Preacher) and I actually have two copies of the first issue of the Invisibles Volume 1. I nearly had a heart attack when I though Sandman 1 was missing but found it mixed up with my Transmet collection. I've also got all of these in trade so I don't have to root through the singles -- I even bought the re-issued Sandman singles on glossy stock when they came out.

    I must have at least a few thousand dollars worth in those boxes -- hopefully they'll survive the zombie apocalypse.

    Seriously, though, if I had to choose which I'd take to a deserted island, these would be the first things I'd think to bring over the X-Men, Avengers and Batman stuff. Maybe I'd bring Simonson's Thor run and my Hellboy collection -- but my favorite comics have to be the Vertigo books. When I was 17 and Invisibles came out, I didn't even understand half of what Grant Morrison was doing with it but having read and re-read it over the years, it's never gotten old. I'd have ranked it 2nd and Transmet 3rd before Fables but I don't have an issue with Preacher and Fables being up there -- I think it just shows the versatility of the imprint and from a mass appeal standpoint, Fables is probably stronger than Invisibles, Swamp Thing and Animal Man.

    Also, before Vertigo was even an imprint, books like Sandman were in DC's Prestige Format (Suggest for Mature Readers -- anyone remember that?) and "graphic novels" were those slightly oversized comics with original stories printed on quality stock like X-Men: God Saves Man Kills and Doctor Strange: Shambala (etc, etc). You know, it's funny because Joe Quesada was saying a few years ago that couldn't see the point of OGN's (the spiritual successors of those 80's graphic novels) when some of the most memorable stories from back in the day were in that format.

    What's more, nowadays, every 10-issue collection of Walking Dead (or whatever number is actually collected) or 4-issue collection of Iron Man qualifies as a "Graphic Novel" -- we have to thank Vertigo (particularly Sandman) for that -- the imprint really made long-form storytelling a viable (if not particularly lucrative) form of the medium and quite a number of its series -- Sandman and Fables in particular -- have such incredibly broad and lasting appeal.

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