Is their a non-telepath mutant that could kill Superman?

[moonknight11]

Define long? He flew to the sun and back just fine, but that seemed to take him moments, so...

He also flew from pluto to earth in the time it took for Red Hood and his outlaws to teleport that distance.

[Captain Morgan]

new52 Supes flew to the sun & back? He was holding his breath right?

They didn't specify. Honestly, Pre-Flashpoint he didn't need to breathe, and now that he blowing past his old levels it would surprise me if he had to.

[Ood Omega]

Define long? He flew to the sun and back just fine, but that seemed to take him moments, so...

Well a moment to us for a guy who moves at FTL must seem like an eternity to him.
Specifically I'm asking about this page from Superman Annual. I haven't read it yet so I'm just wondering if he needs to hold his breath in space.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9...s_superman.jpg

[dupersuper]

They didn't specify. Honestly, Pre-Flashpoint he didn't need to breathe, and now that he blowing past his old levels it would surprise me if he had to.

Pre-Flashpoint he held his breath (a very long time), Pre-Crisis he didn't need to breathe, though they seemed to be getting more pre-Crisis with it starting with his Eradicator-altered-kryptonite power up when he returned from the dead, and were kinda' vague as to where he leveled off after Parasite got him back to normal.

[Vinegar Mk-II]

Because pre-retcon Wolverine was a mutant I think the X-23 was also a mutant before the retcon. X-23 once had Captain Universe's powers, I think that version of X-23 would be able to survive being blitzed by Superman because of her healing factor and Captain Universe's powers if she has enough prep time to use Captain Universe's transmutation power to coat her own bones with adamantium; if the adamantium laced skeleton allows her to survive being blitzed by Superman she could then use super strenght or use transmutation to turn things into kryptonite; if she doesn't get prep time then Superman would destroy her before she could regenerate or add adamantium to her bones if Captain Universe's powers doesn't grant her enough durability.

there were no fears for Trauma to act upon. I don't see how it's PIS, it's just that Trauma never faced anyone with no fears for him to exploit.

Banner is not fearless, his fears caused him to repress memories, which caused him to develop multiple personalities. Hulk isn't fearless either, to say that Hulk is fearless would contradict decades of continuity that shoved Hulk and Banner fearing some things, like for example both Hulk and Banner fear Devil Hulk, Brian Banner and the death of Betty; Hulk also fears the Void. When Apocalypse brainwashed Hulk into becoming War the Hulk wore a special helmet to prevent his fear of Brian Banner from breaking the brainwashing. Nightmare was able to give physical forms to the things Hulk and or Banner fear as seen with Harpy and Mindless Hulk, which is proof that neither Hulk nor Banner are fearless. Trauma would transform into Devil Hulk, Harpy, Mindless Hulk or the Void in a fight against the Hulk without PIS.

Look at it this way: Most of the time Superman operates at normal humanspeed. Just like heatvision or superbreath, it is an ability he can use but he has to decide to use it first, so he has to turn it on, no matter how you name it. Otherwise he would operate at superspeed all the time, which is clearly not the case.

Superman refuses to use his super speed when he fights characters who aren't faster than a human, but when Superman fights people who are faster than humans Superman does not hesitate to use the amount of speed he needs to defeat them, this means that Superman holds back against characters who aren't faster than humans not because of CIS but because Superman refuses to kill. The OP said Superman is in Khazan, meaning that Superman is bloodlusted in this scenario, thus he is not going to hesitate about using his super speed to kill his enemies in Khazan.

[Surtur]

Because pre-retcon Wolverine was a mutant I think the X-23 was also a mutant before the retcon. X-23 once had Captain Universe's powers, I think that version of X-23 would be able to survive being blitzed by Superman because of her healing factor and Captain Universe's powers if she has enough prep time to use Captain Universe's transmutation power to coat her own bones with adamantium; if the adamantium laced skeleton allows her to survive being blitzed by Superman she could then use super strenght or use transmutation to turn things into kryptonite; if she doesn't get prep time then Superman would destroy her before she could regenerate or add adamantium to her bones if Captain Universe's powers doesn't grant her enough durability.

Prep hasn't been granted, so it depends on her best durability feat while with the CU powers. I'm not sure if all CU's are created equal so I can't say if the durability feats of other people with the CU powers would apply.

I'm also not sure if it'd apply to the overall intent of the thread since I get the impression the OP is looking for mutants who can take down Supes under their own power. Of course I could be way off base about that.

Superman refuses to use his super speed when he fights characters who aren't faster than a human, but when Superman fights people who are faster than humans Superman does not hesitate to use the amount of speed he needs to defeat them, this means that Superman holds back against characters who aren't faster than humans not because of CIS but because Superman refuses to kill. The OP said Superman is in Khazan, meaning that Superman is bloodlusted in this scenario, thus he is not going to hesitate to use his super speed to kill his enemies in Khazan.

You're right in that he's not going to hesitate to use his speed in the arena, but he actually doesn't always use his speed even against people who are faster then normal humans.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Something retconned Wolvie into not being a mutant?

[Beadle]

Ok, Captain Universe is (apart from the transmutation thing, but that's never coming into play) absolutely no use against Supes. Slower, weaker, less durable etc, etc.

Even if she coated her bones in Adamantium, she still wouldn't survive the blitz, because the flesh AROUND those bones would be utterly squished, her brains shaken to the consistency of a pineapple smoothie and the sinews moving the skeleton joints torn to pieces by the blows. And that's if he goes easy on her and doesn't just heat-vision zorch all the soft, squishy bits away completely.

Which, with bloodlust, he wouldn't do (go easy, I mean).

She's toast.

[Beadle]

Something retconned Wolvie into not being a mutant?

I seem to vaguely recall something about Wolvie, Sabes, Romulus, Wildchild etc, actually being a separate race from mutants.

I think most writers have subsequently ignored that though.

[Ood Omega]

I seem to vaguely recall something about Wolvie, Sabes, Romulus, Wildchild etc, actually being a separate race from mutants.

A woman claiming to be Romulus' twin appears to Wolverine and tells him that Romulus' claim about certain mutants evolving from canines rather than apes, the Lupine, is untrue.

[Ood Omega]

I seem to vaguely recall something about Wolvie, Sabes, Romulus, Wildchild etc, actually being a separate race from mutants.

A woman claiming to be Romulus' twin appears to Wolverine and tells him that Romulus' claim about certain mutants evolving from canines rather than apes, the Lupine, is untrue.

[Rhyvurg]

Banner is not fearless, his fears caused him to repress memories, which caused him to develop multiple personalities. Hulk isn't fearless either, to say that Hulk is fearless would contradict decades of continuity that shoved Hulk and Banner fearing some things, like for example both Hulk and Banner fear Devil Hulk, Brian Banner and the death of Betty; Hulk also fears the Void. When Apocalypse brainwashed Hulk into becoming War the Hulk wore a special helmet to prevent his fear of Brian Banner from breaking the brainwashing. Nightmare was able to give physical forms to the things Hulk and or Banner fear as seen with Harpy and Mindless Hulk, which is proof that neither Hulk nor Banner are fearless. Trauma would transform into Devil Hulk, Harpy, Mindless Hulk or the Void in a fight against the Hulk without PIS.

Then he clearly got over his fears. Besides, Hulk is not Banner, they're different people that share a brain. Banner's fears are irrelevant.

I seem to vaguely recall something about Wolvie, Sabes, Romulus, Wildchild etc, actually being a separate race from mutants.

I think most writers have subsequently ignored that though.

Last I heard, James was a double mutant, he got his senses and healing from his father, and his claws and animal rage from his mother. Double mutation is uncommon in marvel, but it happens sometimes when two mutant bloodlines merge. That's why he's so powerful. But the Romulus stuff is bullcrap, he was trying to claim James is FAR older than he actually is. He's about a century old, period. Marvel writers seem to keep forgetting Origins was published.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Man, claws with no healing. No wonder his mom wasn't so happy about that power (IIRC).