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  1. #16
    Senior Member UnravThreads's Avatar
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    Locke & Key is pretty supernatural, IIRC. Plus it's written by Joe Hill (son of Stephen King), so it's well-written... from what I hear. I know a blogger who's a big fan of it.

  2. #17
    Hell yeah! Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noble_enough View Post
    I haven't. Are they supernatural in any form? I mostly like something with a bit of that in it.
    How about Moebius / Jean Giraud? Alex Nino? Mark Schultz? William Stout? Jorge Zaffino? Dave Stevens? Michael Kaluta? Gary Gianni? Charles Burns? Brian Bolland? Georges Bess? Rosinski & van Hamme's Thorgal? Esteban Maroto?

    Or great older stuff like Al Williamson? Alex Raymond? Wally Wood? Bernie Krigstein? Lou Fine? Please google them if not ringing a bell. They're all pretty spectacular I find.
    Plus they'd all be about graphical storytelling in a big way, like Frazetta or Toth would also be (maybe Jeff Jones too?), but any of their actually sequential stuff seems rather difficult to come by.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 12-08-2012 at 05:27 PM.
    Been called a 'good egg'. Been told to rock, been told to steady myself. Been told to (please) be goin' places.
    Chillingly good stuff besides Mignola, Slint, M, Knut and really big chunks of tinfoil?
    Half sunk in the mud, with one eye showing / a cracked smile and hair still growing /
    your hands miles apart, as if they'd never met / you were the happiest I'd seen you yet
    . ~
    (full) lyrics to 'Exhume' by Bedhead.

  3. #18
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noble_enough View Post
    I haven't. Are they supernatural in any form? I mostly like something with a bit of that in it.
    Who Is Jakes Ellis?/Where Is Jake Ellis? (first two stories of three) is a spy-thriller drawn by Tonci Zonjic with script and story by Nathan Edmundson. No real supernatural element, but there is a lot of mystery.

    Locke & Key is story with a finite tale to tell. When it's completed there will be six trades. Currently five are out and the sixth, Omega, has just begun to be released in regular issues. As UnravThreads said, it's very supernatural. Yeah, Joe Hill is the son of Stephen King, but they are very different writers (This is a good thing for me. I'm not a Stephen King fan). The tone reminds me a little of the best episodes of Lost. It's got a really nice, spooky atmosphere to it. You may have noticed Scott Allie occasionally recommends it in Hellmail, despite the fact it's not even a Dark Horse book.

    Sin Titulo is very short at only 160 or so pages, but it's also very good. You can read it online here or wait for the nice hardcover next year. I really, really enjoyed this story. Like Locke & Key it is very supernatural, however it's much more personal. I think it's the best online comic I've ever read that isn't a humorous work (Best for that honour is Kate Beaton's stuff). I really can't recommend this one enough. It's fantastic. It's also the comic that got Mike Mignola thinking Cameron Stewart would be a good writer for B.P.R.D..

    Now, I always think a recommendation should be accompanied with a little about the recommender's tastes. It helps get a better read on whether or not you'll like the stories. I like long-form storytelling. Generally short stories don't do anything for me unless they're woven into a larger tapestry, so the Hellboy Universe is a perfect fit for me. I get frustrated reading a lot of supernatural fiction because their goals often seem too short-term for my tastes. I like stories that are of grand scale told on an intimate level.
    Last edited by Middenway; 12-08-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  4. #19
    Hell yeah! Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middenway View Post
    I like long-form storytelling. Generally short stories don't do anything for me unless they're woven into a larger tapestry, so the Hellboy Universe is a perfect fit for me. I get frustrated reading a lot of supernatural fiction because their goals often seem too short-term for my tastes. I like stories that are of grand scale told on an intimate level.
    For me storytelling - and especially graphical storytelling - seems much about envisaging or envisioning stuff on end practically as by grabbing a reader's head and moving it along any stuff to be taking place, from panel to panel and page by page, in such a way however that such a reader or onlooker would not at any time be to grow weary of or disheartened by it.
    Whereas anything about such imagery and storytelling would need to somehow (consciously or be it subconsciously) prove to being functional or eloquent in a way.

    Which seems particular or specific a thing from any textual storytelling or writing, from movies both as tv or acting. There seems strangely little room or leeway for a reader to get either grabbed by it or not, yet the directness or instantaneousness to the imagery seems also less transparent or less cut-and-dry than words in sentences. Whereas stylisation both as focus or leaving stuff out would likely not get bypassed or done without. Which could all be as much a disadvantage as being an advantage.

    And comics or sequential artwork as proving splendid to me may be either short or longer, but I feel I mostly take in stuff as one story at a time, whether it'd be one page long or a thousand. I'd say Mignola's Hellboy would be particularly good for such 'though, seeing as how his panels and pages seem so intricately flowing or paced?

    If I understand you correctly you like body or volume to a story, like with development and such? I'd personally think even the shortest stories could convey or contain such nonetheless. Even heroic ones. To me there seem quite a few superhero works which wouldn't seem like generic cliffhanger-y spandex bravado.
    Like for instance Matt Wagner's "Batman: Faces". It's a 3-issue mini-series (LOTDK) but also exists in trade. I'd know quite a few more, but that'd be my recommendation to you. That is if you have read Mignola's Batman: Gotham By Gaslight / Wolverine: the Jungle Adventure / Ironwolf: Fires of the Revolution / Swamp Thing annual #5 (don't know if this exists in trade format) / Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser / Dracula and such already?
    Last edited by Kees_L; 12-08-2012 at 06:55 PM.
    Been called a 'good egg'. Been told to rock, been told to steady myself. Been told to (please) be goin' places.
    Chillingly good stuff besides Mignola, Slint, M, Knut and really big chunks of tinfoil?
    Half sunk in the mud, with one eye showing / a cracked smile and hair still growing /
    your hands miles apart, as if they'd never met / you were the happiest I'd seen you yet
    . ~
    (full) lyrics to 'Exhume' by Bedhead.

  5. #20
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees_L View Post
    And comics or sequential artwork as proving splendid to me may be either short or longer, but I feel I mostly take in stuff as one story at a time, whether it'd be one page long or a thousand. I'd say Mignola's Hellboy would be particularly good for such 'though, seeing as how his panels and pages seem so intricately flowing or paced?

    If I understand you correctly you like body or volume to a story, like with development and such? I'd personally think even the shortest stories could convey or contain such nonetheless. Even heroic ones. To me there seem quite a few superhero works which wouldn't seem like generic cliffhanger-y spandex bravado.
    I just know my own tastes. I have enjoyed stand-alone short stories (Flowers for Algernon is a personal favourite), but it is exceptionally rare for me. I'm not a short story person. That's why I feel like if I'm going to recommend a comic to someone, I like them to be aware of my personal biases. If they do like short stories, they probably won't like my recommendations.

    My reasons for not liking short stories is complicated, and not something I should really have to explain anyway. No matter how good something is, there will always be someone that doesn't like it. There are plenty of great stories, masterfully told that I don't like, because they don't resonate with me and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Like superhero stories. And one of the reasons I don't like them is that they don't end. They don't take their central ideas to their logical conclusions. They can have fantastic openings and beginnings, but they are deathly afraid of permanent change, and therefore afraid of endings. That's why super hero comics are constantly resurrecting characters. They're in a never-ending pursuit of yesterday. And that's why they don't appeal to me. As someone that puts an enormous amount of value in an ultimate and final ending, they've robbed me of satisfaction as a reader.

  6. #21
    Hell yeah! Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middenway View Post
    My reasons for not liking short stories is complicated, and not something I should really have to explain anyway. No matter how good something is, there will always be someone that doesn't like it. There are plenty of great stories, masterfully told that I don't like, because they don't resonate with me and there's nothing wrong with that.
    You don't need to defend your opinions or preferences. I was just responding 's all. Not to prove you wrong. Not to dismiss your posts or any such.

    You have your views, I'll be having mine.
    Like this:

    It's just that in my view any shortness to stories needn't bear down on stories being full-fleshed stories.

    I'd think that the difference with ongoing superhero material or television series stuff will mainly be that those wouldn't be story matter at all, or that they would be at the opposite of the spectrum from stories or tales.
    Because a story or tale has a beginning and an end, together with a premisse or change/impact toward something to be taking place.

    Whereas some of the ongoing superhero or television series stuff will want to make use of the same entrypoint all the time because it wishes to convey always the same motif or perspective. Generic superhero stuff wants to be about dreamy heroes being dreamy, with any plots or stuff to take place as being of less concern.
    Where stories and storytelling would be evolving 'round some significant change or stuff getting impacted.

    To me it seems Hellboy presents a best of all worlds, because like you say it's a tapestry, showing sequentialness or ongoingness, yet with managing to being storytelling distinctly and profoundly nonetheless, with also making use of short stories both as longer ones, plus it even manages to work as by titles or books as chosen by the reader, more rather than as by dictating only the fullest collection of all of it.
    Been called a 'good egg'. Been told to rock, been told to steady myself. Been told to (please) be goin' places.
    Chillingly good stuff besides Mignola, Slint, M, Knut and really big chunks of tinfoil?
    Half sunk in the mud, with one eye showing / a cracked smile and hair still growing /
    your hands miles apart, as if they'd never met / you were the happiest I'd seen you yet
    . ~
    (full) lyrics to 'Exhume' by Bedhead.

  7. #22
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees_L View Post
    To me it seems Hellboy presents a best of all worlds, because like you say it's a tapestry, showing sequentialness or ongoingness, yet with managing to being storytelling distinctly and profoundly nonetheless, with also making use of short stories both as longer ones, plus it even manages to work as by titles or books as chosen by the reader, more rather than as by dictating only the fullest collection of all of it.
    I totally agree. And I love the way a short story can have far-reaching consequences (such as The Corpse).

  8. #23
    M.S.Corley noble_enough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middenway View Post
    Who Is Jakes Ellis?/Where Is Jake Ellis? (first two stories of three) is a spy-thriller drawn by Tonci Zonjic with script and story by Nathan Edmundson. No real supernatural element, but there is a lot of mystery.

    Locke & Key is story with a finite tale to tell. When it's completed there will be six trades. Currently five are out and the sixth, Omega, has just begun to be released in regular issues. As UnravThreads said, it's very supernatural. Yeah, Joe Hill is the son of Stephen King, but they are very different writers (This is a good thing for me. I'm not a Stephen King fan). The tone reminds me a little of the best episodes of Lost. It's got a really nice, spooky atmosphere to it. You may have noticed Scott Allie occasionally recommends it in Hellmail, despite the fact it's not even a Dark Horse book.

    Sin Titulo is very short at only 160 or so pages, but it's also very good. You can read it online here or wait for the nice hardcover next year. I really, really enjoyed this story. Like Locke & Key it is very supernatural, however it's much more personal. I think it's the best online comic I've ever read that isn't a humorous work (Best for that honour is Kate Beaton's stuff). I really can't recommend this one enough. It's fantastic. It's also the comic that got Mike Mignola thinking Cameron Stewart would be a good writer for B.P.R.D..

    Now, I always think a recommendation should be accompanied with a little about the recommender's tastes. It helps get a better read on whether or not you'll like the stories. I like long-form storytelling. Generally short stories don't do anything for me unless they're woven into a larger tapestry, so the Hellboy Universe is a perfect fit for me. I get frustrated reading a lot of supernatural fiction because their goals often seem too short-term for my tastes. I like stories that are of grand scale told on an intimate level.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
    Locke & Key sounds like it might be interesting, I too am not a Stephen King fan so glad to hear the writing is different.

    Jake Ellis might be good even though there's no super-naturalness, I enjoy spy thrillers but more specifically I like Tonci Zonjic's art.

    I've read most of Sin Titulo online, and I didn't really care for it, not the story so much as the art. Which I guess should lead to me explaning my own tastes..

    Comic wise I really like long form storytelling like you but I do also really enjoy short stories. So pretty even there, BUT more importantly I read comics for good storytelling and good art. And I'm really really picky when it comes to art I like. If the art isn't interesting to me the story never seems to save it IMO. For instance, all of my least favorite stories from Hellboy are drawn by Richard Corben. I know thats blasphemy to say on the hellboard, especially with the Crooked Man held in such high regard by pretty much everyone thats a fan and in the industry. But thats just me, I might have loved Crooked Man if Duncan or Mike drew it, but it just didn't work for me. I buy them in all formats because its Hellboy, but yeah thats about the only reason. If Mike didn't write it, and it was like a 'Hellboy Weird Tales' that Corben drew and someone else wrote, I wouldn't buy it. I just really don't enjoy Corbens art...

    I'm not saying that to start an argument or anything, just my opinion. But I brought that up to say, art in the comic is a big deal to me. I like a lot of different styles, but some books no matter how highly are recommended to me, if the art isn't something that interests me, it doesn't work.

    Two examples:
    I was recommended the comic The Unwritten by someone that said it was the best new series they had ever read, which I got and read the first trade. And was severely disappointed because it seemed so cliche, boring, and again, the art was not something I liked in the slightest.

    Fables, This is a book I really really wanted to like, I liked the premise and the idea, but I couldn't get past the art. Not the James Jean covers btw, those were amazing.

    So for me, the story and the art has to be equally captivating. If either don't work for me, the whole comic fails. (which sucks for me)
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  9. #24
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    You should give The GOON a try. In many ways its similar to Hellboy. The GOON himself is quite HB-like in terms of the stoicism with which he "enters the fray." Story-wise its also similar to Mignola's style in that there are mythology and "non-mythology" stories. Theres an main story arc that runs throughout but there are breaks for humorus one-offs and really great period pieces too. And the artwork is awesome. It leans towards a sort of Mad Magazine-esque humour at times, but the best stuff is the mythology stories...
    Last edited by Zevious Zoquis; 12-11-2012 at 07:33 AM.

  10. #25
    M.S.Corley noble_enough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevious Zoquis View Post
    You should give The GOON a try. In many ways its similar to Hellboy. The GOON himself is quite HB-like in terms of the stoicism with which he "enters the fray." Story-wise its also similar to Mignola's style in that there are mythology and "non-mythology" stories. Theres an main story arc that runs throughout but there are breaks for humorus one-offs and really great period pieces too. And the artwork is awesome. It leans towards a sort of Mad Magazine-esque humour at times, but the best stuff is the wythology stories...
    I like the goon art I've seen, the covers and pin ups and stuff.

    I will admit though, I got the first issue of Goon a while back, and thought.. What was that? What am I missing? Why do people like this?
    I don't remember any story or anything, it was just kinda there.

    Can someone suggest a good Goon trade I should pick up that will help me learn that the Goon is good. The very first issue I know is a bad thing to judge by in most comics..
    Ars longa, vita brevis
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  11. #26
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noble_enough View Post
    ...art in the comic is a big deal to me. I like a lot of different styles, but some books no matter how highly are recommended to me, if the art isn't something that interests me, it doesn't work.
    Yeah, I'm very much the same. Comic art, like any art, is unpredictable that way. The artwork in Locke & Key is drawn beautifully, but... I didn't like it. Fortunately the layouts and acting was enough to hook me on the writing, but I didn't like the look of the drawing. And the artwork is really good, it's just not my thing. It'll probably grow on me as I read more though.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by noble_enough View Post
    I like the goon art I've seen, the covers and pin ups and stuff.

    I will admit though, I got the first issue of Goon a while back, and thought.. What was that? What am I missing? Why do people like this?
    I don't remember any story or anything, it was just kinda there.

    Can someone suggest a good Goon trade I should pick up that will help me learn that the Goon is good. The very first issue I know is a bad thing to judge by in most comics..
    I've got the trades - all except volume 0 which contains really early (rough) stuff. I'd say volume 1 is a bit like what you describe - still getting the story going and so forth. Volume 2 is when things start rolling and by volume 4 its really cooking. By 4 the mythology is well grounded and the art style has started to really solidify. Powell starts doing alot of painting around then...

  13. #28
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    Speaking of Eric Powell, Billy the Kid's Old Timey Oddities is really good too. And I really like Kyle Hotz's artwork.

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