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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ussescort View Post
    I, for one, am slightly insulted by James's remark. I completely understand his sentiment, I really do, but blaming the fans for wanting to see the characters they invested their time and money and not really accepting pale imitators is kind of insulting.
    But true.

    There's something very immature about fans that makes them express their desires in such fetishistic terms. It has to be JUST so. It has to be EXACTLY that.

  2. #17
    The Livewire
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    Quote Originally Posted by ussescort View Post
    I do not want to 'take a pill, get amnesia, and read the same story over and over', I want to read great and exciting comics using the characters I know and love, written by fantastically imaginative authors and illustrated by talented artists. He did it with The Golden Age and with Starman, but this title is just not worth my time or effort.
    Believe me, while not as enamoured with the JSA as you are, I understand your feeling. My Titans (the ones I grew up with) have ceased to exist, just like your JSA. (Along with Obsidian and Jade) I want new stories with Dick, Wally, Donna, Gar, Raven and Vic.

    But... like I said, with Earth-2 this really is "Ultimates DC" like how Firestar isn't Angelica Jones in 1616, or how Peter Parker isn't going to get better. It's not your JSA, but at least you don't have to worry about cramming 4 Star Spangled Kids in a 5 year period, or wonder how the lack of a JSA affected the major storylines still being referenced.

  3. #18
    Junior Member darima80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Robinson
    Calling the book "Earth 2" liberates me from having a traditional team, but you are going to see the Wonders working together. You'll also see me focusing on one superhero or two superheroes sometimes, too. That's something I'm really enjoying, seeing them slowly come together as opposed to it being an immediate thing. I am able to take these stories in interesting directions that I couldn't normally do if we were fixed on a traditional team book.
    I was always cool with the whole world building aspect of this book but now I totally get it. I've always hated how most team books are so "color by numbers: threat --> team forms --> threat disappears" and then all character development goes down the drain because it's almost impossible to balance it with the action the readers demand. This book is about the Wonders of Earth-2, not the JSA, which means we may even (eventually) get a new set of [Teen] Titans on Earth-2.

  4. #19
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    I often think that there is a faction of comic fans that don't want to read new comic books. They want to take a pill that will give them amnesia so they can read the same story all over again.
    Truer words were never spoken.
    "If you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth, on manners

    "It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose." - Peter David, on life

  5. #20
    Senior Member Den's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darima80 View Post
    I was always cool with the whole world building aspect of this book but now I totally get it. I've always hated how most team books are so "color by numbers: threat --> team forms --> threat disappears" and then all character development goes down the drain because it's almost impossible to balance it with the action the readers demand. This book is about the Wonders of Earth-2, not the JSA, which means we may even (eventually) get a new set of [Teen] Titans on Earth-2.
    Actually, I admit it. I was hoping they'd get together as a team faster than this, BUT...
    I can't argue with results. They teamed up out of necessity, they kicked ass...and then, well, being people, they have disagreements on where to go from there but as a reader you can still see it slowly coming together.
    Robinson was right, I was wrong.
    And am glad to be :)
    All cruel people describe themselves as paragons of frankness.-Tennessee Williams

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Den View Post
    Actually, I admit it. I was hoping they'd get together as a team faster than this, BUT...
    I can't argue with results. They teamed up out of necessity, they kicked ass...and then, well, being people, they have disagreements on where to go from there but as a reader you can still see it slowly coming together.
    Robinson was right, I was wrong.
    Noooo!

    And am glad to be :)
    Oh. Well, then it's OK, then.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ussescort View Post
    I, for one, am slightly insulted by James's remark. I completely understand his sentiment, I really do, but blaming the fans for wanting to see the characters they invested their time and money and not really accepting pale imitators is kind of insulting. He IS a great writer. As such, he should have been able to take to take the existing Earth 2 history and make it fresh and exciting, not create a pale, flat clone that utilizes the names and powers of favorite characters and makes them unrecognizable to long-time fans. I have a very soft-spot in my heart for the JSA and what they represented. I do not want to 'take a pill, get amnesia, and read the same story over and over', I want to read great and exciting comics using the characters I know and love, written by fantastically imaginative authors and illustrated by talented artists. He did it with The Golden Age and with Starman, but this title is just not worth my time or effort.
    It would carry more weight if he was talking about working on comics with characters he created like Leave it to Chance or Firearm. But, the whole series, concepts and characters are built on on riding the coat-tails of the work of others and banking on that built in familiarity. Deriding the Flash's origin and Al Pratt's secondary origins while he has the Flash get his power from the god Mercury? Gee, so did the Marvel family. Not to mention the power from the gods/demons were origins of several of their foes, the GA Thor, the first version of Marvel's Thor before it was retconned he was the god all along, Son of Vulcan and Thunderstrike. Plus, Robinson's one of the writers that had Al Pratt gain his atomic powers that way, building on what Thomas wrote back when he was so busy stamping his own retcon on every retcon that Thomas made. Oh, he's so creative with how he gave attributes of the Atom and Green Lantern's legacies to them instead. Apokolips attacking Earth, saw it just last year. Alan Scott fighting Solomon Grundy, about as original as him facing Sportsmaster. They want to be seen as creative and not bound by the past, but they are the ones that are simply just retreading it.

    Yeah, the audacity of some people being sold something called an apple expecting it to taste like an apple and not an onion.

  8. #23
    Long Live the Legion ultraaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    while some elements of Robinsion's earth 2 interest me, other elements don't, and it's keeping me from investing in his world building.
    Your loss. It is dragging a bit, but that is Robinson's style so it doesn't make sense for me to expect something different from him.

    Could Fury be Artemis? I'm not reading Wonder Woman so don't know if she has been introduced over there. I doubt there would be two Artemises.

    I agree with Robinson's opinion regarding reader amnesia in regards to Earth-2. This iteration of Earth-2 is a creation out of thin air so to speak since there were no Earth-2 stories between Crisis On Infinite Earths and Flashpoint. Ostensibly it arose from Infinite Crisis to be similar to the pre-COIE version of Earth-2 but was changed again with the conclusion of Flashpoint. There is no obligation to honor historical Earth-2 elements other than to include references that make this Earth an alternate to the main world. I for one would be glad to see brand new relationships forged, new versions and new creations that have not been seen before on an Earth like this.

    That being said, I do not apply his view to the stories of the main new52 Earth. If the logic of Flashpoint is to be believed (and still actually used by DC, which is in doubt I admit), then Earth-1 - NEW New Earth or whatever the hell it is called nowadays - is a streamlined and updated version of itself from pre-new52. It should contain similar elements and similar relationships like the ones we read about from the past 25 years, with some creative license thrown in and the understanding that less popular/utilized elements that have carried over are more likely to be altered simply because they can be with little/no backlash from fans. As much as I don't like the Superman and Wonder Woman romance, it makes sense for the same reasons that it wouldn't make sense for Superman to fall for Jessie Quick or Wonder Woman for Green Lantern. Namely, that the new relationships are augmentations of what came before.

    [Whether or not that logic also applies to Earth-2 is irrelevant since we had no stories from pre-new52 to reference; so for all intents and purposes the Earth-2 stories we read now are "new".]

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraaman View Post
    I agree with Robinson's opinion regarding reader amnesia in regards to Earth-2. This iteration of Earth-2 is a creation out of thin air so to speak since there were no Earth-2 stories between Crisis On Infinite Earths and Flashpoint. Ostensibly it arose from Infinite Crisis to be similar to the pre-COIE version of Earth-2 but was changed again with the conclusion of Flashpoint. There is no obligation to honor historical Earth-2 elements other than to include references that make this Earth an alternate to the main world. I for one would be glad to see brand new relationships forged, new versions and new creations that have not been seen before on an Earth like this.

    [Whether or not that logic also applies to Earth-2 is irrelevant since we had no stories from pre-new52 to reference; so for all intents and purposes the Earth-2 stories we read now are "new".]
    It's in no way a creation "out of thin air." He's merely bastardized the Earth 2 that already had existed.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Den View Post
    Actually, I admit it. I was hoping they'd get together as a team faster than this, BUT...
    I can't argue with results. They teamed up out of necessity, they kicked ass...and then, well, being people, they have disagreements on where to go from there but as a reader you can still see it slowly coming together.
    Robinson was right, I was wrong.
    And am glad to be :)
    The real beauty of it is that after they teamed up and didn't get along they didn't say hey here's an idea lets work as a team for 5 years despite hating each other.

    It's in no way a creation "out of thin air." He's merely bastardized the Earth 2 that already had existed.
    This would imply I think that there was something from the previous Earth-2 left and being used. Not so much here.

  11. #26
    Veteran Member El Sombrero's Avatar
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    As I posted in the Earth 2 7 thread, excited to read this. The preview art looks really good.
    Saga, Private Eye, Chew, Umbral, Deadly Class, Pretty Deadly

    She-Hulk, Ghost Rider, Loki, Moon Knight, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Punisher, X-Factor

  12. #27

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    I love what they are doing with Earth2, the world building and rolling out the characters a couple at a time. Robinson gives time for each character to have a hood back story and an intelligent and unique origin, while still giving a nod to the original Golden age counterparts. True while this is not the JSA I grew up with and loved, it is a version I'm very much enjoying and looking forward to seeing Dr. Fate and Fury.

  13. #28

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    My point was not to demean what they are doing, my point really was why do they have to bastardize the characters this way. Earth 2 would be the same book without using Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Kendra Saunders, etc. The great thing about the Earth 2 of old was that they were allowed to age and grow older. The same story could be told with the Darkseid's troops attacking and causing the valiant deaths of the JSA, creating a vacuum that the new 'wonders' have to fill. It could have had a nod to the past the fans of the JSA could have accepted and gave us a blank slate to go forward with story-wise and character-wise.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by ussescort View Post
    My point was not to demean what they are doing, my point really was why do they have to bastardize the characters this way. Earth 2 would be the same book without using Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Kendra Saunders, etc. The great thing about the Earth 2 of old was that they were allowed to age and grow older.
    WHich, if you think about it, is a bastardization of the characters.

    In their prime, at their most popular, they were the prime super heroes, at the top of their game, in their youth. It was only in the Bronze Age (way after the Silver Age) that they were mature super heroes with legacies (which were the primary super heroes we read).

  15. #30
    Member ILoveVibe's Avatar
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    the world building and basically having a plank canvas that is not bogged down with other characters book are what I think works for Earth 2 and makes it a much more exciting book compared to JL. I do hope eventually they add some more series based out of Earth 2.

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