Avengers #1 *Spoilers*

**motteditor** · 12-06-2012, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by tingray

I loved this issue, and the specific powers for specific needs idea. I just with the Vision or Hank Pym would've made the cut. A guy who can alter his density and walk through walls and a guy who can shrink or grow himself as well as inanimate objects seem like they would come in pretty handy in any number of situations. I understand what Hickman meant when he was "looking forward, not back" though. Can't wait to see the rest of the team.

Agreed. More importantly, though, I hope we find out WHY they're not part of the team. I can see why Hickman wouldn't do that, certainly (since it's sort of wasted space), but it makes no sense in character that Tony and/or Steve wouldn't invite these two to be part of the team.

**rsreed13** · 12-06-2012, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Optic Rage

When Cap puts out the call to the new team, who is the woman in the field with the black hair supposed to be? And what's the silver dome?

Judging by the cover to later issues, it's likely the new Smasher as she is also seen near a farm. As far as the dome goes, I imagine it's Tabula Rasa, which - to summarize - is a biodome for a highly evolved ecosystem. It most recently featured in Kieron Gillen's Uncanny X-Men run. Tabula Rasa is located in Montana, near a farming community.

**jackolover** · 12-06-2012, 06:15 PM

I do wonder why Ex Nihilo didn't go to Earth immediately, but went over to Terraform Mars first? The mystery is if Earth as been judged to fail, what is Mars judged as? but it looks like earth has stepped into a sequence of events that has been in effect for a while. I also like how Marvel NOW! was in a state of relative calm and then this thing just sprung out of nowhere. Hickman presents Avenges #1 as a place where all the drama of the last 2 Events have waned and then it all starts now. I like how you get the feeling that the MU was devoid of any hungover drama and it all starts as if nothing had happened in the MU.

**Robby Robot** · 12-06-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by jackolover

I do wonder why Ex Nihilo didn't go to Earth immediately, but went over to Terraform Mars first? The mystery is if Earth as been judged to fail, what is Mars judged as?

Well, he is creating the new man on Mars. Maybe he didn't want to risk any possible co-mingling with the lesser apes of Earth before he had them all... recreated.

**jackolover** · 12-06-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Robby Robot

Well, he is creating the new man on Mars. Maybe he didn't want to risk any possible co-mingling with the lesser apes of Earth before he had them all... recreated.

So what? Is he stitching up the whole solar system? What is he going to do with the sun?

**jackolover** · 12-06-2012, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by motteditor

Agreed. More importantly, though, I hope we find out WHY they're not part of the team. I can see why Hickman wouldn't do that, certainly (since it's sort of wasted space), but it makes no sense in character that Tony and/or Steve wouldn't invite these two to be part of the team.

Yeah, the Wasp is back and nobody is using her. That's a waste. That damsel could get good use on Mars.

**Robby Robot** · 12-06-2012, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by jackolover

Yeah, the Wasp is back and nobody is using her. That's a waste. That damsel could get good use on Mars.

There are plans for Wasp in a different title.

**JessieMidnight** · 12-06-2012, 08:11 PM

I can't wait to read this. I've liked a lot of Hickman's other work, so I think I'm going to really like his run on Avengers. Plus the art looks great. Can't wait to see more from the new villains, and other new villains that he creates. The story behind Hyperion, the new Smasher, and the new Captain Universe should be good.

**HaveAtThee** · 12-06-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by jackolover

The Avengers got blown out of the sky. The enemy already know why they came. How much strategy is going to work there? The enemy can mind control their opponents, so the Avengers are basically canon fodder at this stage. The enemy can control a fight and make their opponents look like suckers. They can send plant bombs with precision to earth and blow up cities, not uninhabitable deserts, or seas. They can terraform a whole planet. We're talking a Galactus here, with incredible control of the Universe and power. What are the Avengers but ants? So did you see Thor attacking those three people putting Cap in a rocket and sending him back to Earth? No. Thor is chicken feed to these guys. There is only one thing that could make these guys sit up and notice, and that is World Breaker Hulk. If Hickman makes the Hulk smash Mars into pieces and Thor repair it, that would be awesome.

I have no problem with Thor and Hulk losing in a fight, especially to space-based villains. I just feel everything happened far too suddenly and seemingly without much purpose. Perhaps, to me, had there been maybe a half page devoted to showing these cities that were destroyed, their act would have meant more. Hickman jumped through events spanning quite some time to try and "advance the plot" but to me there hasn't been much plot established to begin with.

**Free-Man** · 12-06-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by jackolover

Yeah, the Wasp is back and nobody is using her. That's a waste. That damsel could get good use on Mars.

Wasp is one of the leads in Uncanny Avengers, starting with issue 5.

That brings me to a question. Did we ever see why the previous team disbanded? There was nothing but Tony saying "We need to get bigger" but the preview for the next issue makes it look like Steve and Tony had to rebuild the roster from the ground up. Has it been addressed in any of the other books?

**direction9** · 12-06-2012, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Robby Robot

I can't even deal with the Bendis side of the Bendis-Hickman divide or the Thor FEAT-natics anymore.

I'm much more interested in those with honest criticisms. Like the plot seeming similar to Giant-Size X-Men #1.

At a certain point, a lot of plots have already been done. What makes this different?

Did Krakoa even have a motivation?

it's not even a criticism, it's just a characteristic of this book. in 2012, this new team relaunch heavily references the biggest classic team relaunch in all of comics.
actually this was just a no-brainer.

**JamesProudstar** · 12-06-2012, 11:09 PM

I think drawing from the X-Men relaunch is a great idea. For everyone talking about seeing the bio bomb devastation on Earth, I am sure we will be treated to earlier parts of the story in the coming issues

**jackolover** · 12-06-2012, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by HaveAtThee

I have no problem with Thor and Hulk losing in a fight, especially to space-based villains. I just feel everything happened far too suddenly and seemingly without much purpose. Perhaps, to me, had there been maybe a half page devoted to showing these cities that were destroyed, their act would have meant more. Hickman jumped through events spanning quite some time to try and "advance the plot" but to me there hasn't been much plot established to begin with.

On reflection though, after these beings achieved the acts they performed in the book, didn't it occur to anybody this is not the Red Skull dressed up in a lizard costume? This was some seriously overpowered dudes? Because for this to be a major threat to the Avengers, the Kree or the Skrull are not going to do it anymore. For the Avengers just to come out of Avengers mansion it has to be something they cannot handle. Thor getting owned is something the Avengers cannot handle. Bio bombs hitting major human cities from outer space is threats the Avengers cannot handle. You imagine something that the Avengers cannot handle, this is it.

The good thing is, the Avengers got over the Phoenix, so for them, this should be a walk in the park right? Hickman, on the other hand, is giving the Avengers a detour, and a surprise attack, unlike the Phoenix encountering the Secret Avengers first, and then preparing a counter attack. No such luck this time, though. The Avengers are caught with their pants down. Good news is, this is the stuff the Avengers thrive on, surprise attacks. They had Avengers Disassembled, Civil War, Fear Itself, Secret Invasion. After a while, they just know they have the credentials. Meanwhile after the initial battering, the Avengers look like an audience in this story.

I have to remember Avengers Disassembled #502, and it is Hawkeye who is put in the position, he has never been put in before, where he has lost, completely, and not knowing these are magically formed Kree, he does the thing every Avenger hasn't had to do before, and that is sacrifice himself for the team, (okay Thors sacrifice in FI is one). This is such a strange story (#502), just because it shows Avengers End. I don't even think we will get that here, with this story, that's how rare the Hawkeye sacrifice was. It's just worth remembering how bad things can get, because it was Wanda who never gave Hawkeye any room to move, and he died. Most villains would never kill Avengers, but one of their own knew how to kill them.

**EuphemismForSex** · 12-07-2012, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by HaveAtThee

I have no problem with Thor and Hulk losing in a fight, especially to space-based villains. I just feel everything happened far too suddenly and seemingly without much purpose. Perhaps, to me, had there been maybe a half page devoted to showing these cities that were destroyed, their act would have meant more. Hickman jumped through events spanning quite some time to try and "advance the plot" but to me there hasn't been much plot established to begin with.

The time span between the attacks starting and the end of the issue is very short. The only thing he jumped through were the one month between Tony pitching his idea to Steve and the attacks starting.

Seeing a bomb go off in a city would've been waste of a page, despite how beautifully drawn it would've been. The issue already let's you know how dire the situation is.

**Sunstorm** · 12-07-2012, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Free-Man

Wasp is one of the leads in Uncanny Avengers, starting with issue 5.

That brings me to a question. Did we ever see why the previous team disbanded? There was nothing but Tony saying "We need to get bigger" but the preview for the next issue makes it look like Steve and Tony had to rebuild the roster from the ground up. Has it been addressed in any of the other books?

The last time this happened was when the New Avengers was formed. Especially since Wanda destroyed the old team to where they had to start all over from scratch. This time however because of what happened with the X-Men, it sounds like that Steve & Tony completly overhauled the Avengers.