Stormwatch #15 Discussion/Spoilers

[beetle_booster]

Theory: Projectionist altered what every was seeing when they thought it was her memories. She's very much in league with Tanner.

Definitely a possibility. So many questions of which I can't wait the answers for. I wish this title's bi-weekly. Milligan is good.

[JaggedFel]

Theory: Projectionist altered what every was seeing when they thought it was her memories. She's very much in league with Tanner.

Sounds good yeah midnighter is new and he did try to eliminate Jenny but come on the projectionist disappeared with a traitor and comes back and u believe her after a memory scan? Yeah that is just dumb.

Tanner is still a crappy Tao knockoff

[Jake Fury]

This issue was much better upon reading it a second time.

[Bruce Kent]

Sounds good yeah midnighter is new and he did try to eliminate Jenny but come on the projectionist disappeared with a traitor and comes back and u believe her after a memory scan? Yeah that is just dumb.

She was kidnapped. If you recover someone that was kidnapped you're not really expecting them to have been converted by the kidnapper. Stockholm syndrome is an expection, not a rule.

[will_from_chicago]

Midnighter does not generally inspire trust (particularly for Jenny Quantum), there was a Storm Lord (or so all but Midnighter thought) and a device condemned Midnighter. So, we will see how this plays out.

[Mr. Holmes]

Why? Midnighter is new, has been an asshole since day one, hates being on teams, one of their big overlords seems to think he's evil, and the memories they took out of that chick indicate that he's evil.

They haven't seen what we've seen, it's reasonable to think Midnighter may have been a plant all along.

Fair enough, but it just seems to me that the Shadow Lord sounds sketchy from the beginning, and I was expecting a more confused reaction than just anger and chasing right away.

[bubble_chunks]

I really want to like this series, but the characters are just such pale shadows of their former selves.

Actually, it's Midnighter and Apollo that have been butchered the most, and as a HUGE fan of the two badass married gay heroes they used to be I'm probably never going to be satisfied with these lame knock-offs.

I just wish their relationship wasn't played for laughs so often in this series. They used to be rock-solid-in-love and devoted to one-another -but in this universe Midnighter essentially flat-out stalked Apollo and then manipulated and talked him into being gay. Gross.

And now in this issue, when Apollo turns on a dime and decided to HULK-SMASH his boyfriend with not a single moment's hesitation, Milligan has him throw-out the terribly-amusing line of dialogue just after he gets punched by Midnighter: "Kind of ironic isn't it? This is as physical as we ever got. Or will get."

Seriously? These two dudes have never even made-out?! So lame. What fricken bullshit.

And other characters haven't fared that well in this new continuity. The Engineer is just a cold, brittle, terrible human being, and Hawksmoor is just a cipher now... he has no personality whatsoever. At least Jenny is still kind of cool.

And they way they are so easily manipulated by Tanner-Shadow-Dude: what a bunch of dumbasses. The whole Shadow-Lord business has bothered me from the very start. These used to be the premier super league who did whatever they wanted and answered to no-one; now they're just a bunch of idiot lackeys who have been led-by-the-nose by this bureaucratic council and Harry Tanner from the very beginning.

*Sigh*. I just wish this series would get cancelled already so I don't have to keep witnessing this train-wreck.

[Mr. Holmes]

And they way they are so easily manipulated by Tanner-Shadow-Dude: what a bunch of dumbasses. The whole Shadow-Lord business has bothered me from the very start. These used to be the premier super league who did whatever they wanted and answered to no-one; now they're just a bunch of idiot lackeys who have been led-by-the-nose by this bureaucratic council and Harry Tanner from the very beginning.

*Sigh*. I just wish this series would get cancelled already so I don't have to keep witnessing this train-wreck.

Yeah they haven't lived up to that whole "we're super-professionals protecting the world for centuries" motto at all. It's such a cool interpretation of the team, if only they'd actually show it.

I don't disagree about Apollo/Midnighter, but honestly you need to just judge these characters as if they were brand new. Comparing them to the Wildstorm versions will inevitably disappoint you every time. I've had to learn that the hard way when it comes to both Vertigo and Wildstorm characters in the DCU.

[bubble_chunks]

I don't disagree about Apollo/Midnighter, but honestly you need to just judge these characters as if they were brand new. Comparing them to the Wildstorm versions will inevitably disappoint you every time. I've had to learn that the hard way when it comes to both Vertigo and Wildstorm characters in the DCU.

Yeah, you're right. For some reason I've had an easier time accepting the Nu 52 Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman as alternate-universe versions and just enjoying the new stories even though I've been reading about those characters for decades longer than Apollo and Midnighter.

But in a climate where gay people in Washington state just today had multiple wedding ceremonies for the first time, which is a HUGE advancement in civil rights in the United States, and yet, it just throws into sharp contrast how the majority of gay and lesbian people in the U.S. are denied the right to marry their loved ones, or visit them in the hospital, or can be fired for being gay, and are denied all the rights and responsibilities of marriage or raising children - and then I look at Apollo and Midnighter - who years ago used to be one of the only positive representations of two gay male married heroes raising a child in the popular media.

And now they've been reduced to simpering emotionally-stunted stalker versions of their former selves, whose relationship is just creepy comic relief and who have been neutered to the point that they've never even been intimate with one-another - beyond punching each other in the face. That's hard to swallow.

Plus, it seems like all the characters in Stormwatch have been reduced to caricatures of their former selves in order to pump-up the Justice League's rep. This series almost reads as a satirical version of The Authority. I was actually looking forward to seeing the arrogant, uber-competent Authority characters as foils to the Justice League in this new continuity, but that seems like it'll never happen with this lame moronic version of Stormwatch.

[TehJofus]

And now they've been reduced to simpering emotionally-stunted stalker versions of their former selves, whose relationship is just creepy comic relief and who have been neutered to the point that they've never even been intimate with one-another - beyond punching each other in the face. That's hard to swallow.

Honestly, that seemed like set-up to me. I would not be surprised at all if this story arc ends with some Midnight and Apollo intimacy after the "sorry for not trusting you" conversation.

[dupersuper]

but in this universe Midnighter essentially flat-out stalked Apollo and then manipulated and talked him into being gay. Gross.

[Montressor]

I might pick up trades of this if it somehow is a lead-in to the Trinity War...very interested in that.

[Mr. Holmes]

It doesn't. I think it was meant to be more involved in the DCU originally, but the book's launch wasn't so successful.

[havok1977]

I'm catching up with my pulled comics from this month and I read this issue of Stormwatch recently, and I can't help but feel the book struggling to find its ground; I enjoyed what Milligan did when he first took over: the Hidden People issue was great, the zero issue was quite good in connecting the whole thing with Demon Kights and the Etrigan revival was well handled IMO specially after reading Cornell's final issue on that title; but as I mentioned before in this thread the whole Harry Tanner just changing his appearance and saying 'here I am your long lost fellow Shadow Lord' just doesn't sit right with me, I'm still hoping that there will me more to it than well, he's the prince of lies you dummy.

Also characterization leaves a lot to be desired, during the Wildstorm Jack Hawksmoor used to be so opinionated and ballsy and Angie was such a warm person and so competent; the 'this is a new universe' argument can only go so far, both are way worse off here. Midnighter also suffers but to a slightly lesser degree, at least he figured out its Tanner messing with the team but as Desaad mentioned we just fall into a cliche misunderstanding chase scenario that will predictably end with the rest of the team noticing what's really going on, for a much better handled deception check out Brubaker's run in The Authority: Revolution. And Apollo has been seriously dumbed down.

The reality of it is, thanks to Marvel Now I have to cut back my pull list and this book is turning into a front runner to get dropped.