Why the dislike on Ramos

[Lars C]

I agree how their art is very similar.

Who do you prefer?

[neverender]

Who do you prefer?

Capullo's pencils are a bit more detailed to me, but I'd prefer either honestly

[Memphis Raines]

btw: Ditko was the original iconic Spidey artist. And personally, I didn't (and still don't) care for Ditko's work all that much. I was much more partial to Romita Sr. and (my favorite) Ross Andru.

I love Ramo's art. Some don't apparently.

But love 'em or hate 'em, some artists put their stamp on a book and it comes to define an era.

Sorry for all the Ramo's haters out there, but it's too late. :) It's pretty much a done deal ..

I'm sorry, but I don't see Marvel using Ramos' depiction of Spider-Man on Spider-Man merchandise like they did with Bagley for an entire decade, and I don't see artists lining up to use Ramos' depiction of Spider-Man as a template for how they should draw Spidey, like people did with McFarlane's Spidey for 20 years and Romita Sr.'s for 30 years.

I think what a lot of people WILL do 10, 20, or 30 years from now---especially those who aren't Spidey fans and who are objective about the art in the book---is look back at Ramos' art and go, "WTF?!? How on Earth did this guy get so much work on Marvel's FLAGSHIP character in his FLAGSHIP book?!?"

[Memphis Raines]

Ramos and Greg Capullo's styles similar?!? Aside from them both being "cartoony" artists, I don't see any similarity between their styles at all. Capullo's art is MUCH more controlled, is much cleaner, far better story telling wise, and he also has a nice grasp of human anatomy and how to draw human faces (even if he does do them in a cartoonish manner).

Overall, Capullo's style is just all around cleaner and more versatile than Ramos'. Do you think Ramos could have successfully and EFFECTIVELY penciled a run on a dark comic like Spawn like Capullo did?!? Ramos penciled some of the darkest chapters of X-Men: Messiah Complex and his junky, cluttered panels and overly cartoonish pencils were very hard to follow and COMPLETELY took you out of the dark mood of the story.

To be fair, Ramos has cleaned up and toned down his pencils quite a bit since being on ASM (he REALLY sucked at drawing Spidey on the Jenkins stories a decade ago), but for me personally, even though Ramos' art is a lot more tolerable these days, he still does stuff in every other panel that reminds you why you disliked him so much in the first place. For instance, any civilian woman's face he draws, or the even-for-Spider-Man-super weird anatomy he still gets carried away with sometimes.

[newwave]

Ramos and Greg Capullo's styles similar?!? Aside from them both being "cartoony" artists, I don't see any similarity between their styles at all. Capullo's art is MUCH more controlled, is much cleaner, far better story telling wise, and he also has a nice grasp of human anatomy and how to draw human faces (even if he does do them in a cartoonish manner).

Overall, Capullo's style is just all around cleaner and more versatile than Ramos'. Do you think Ramos could have successfully and EFFECTIVELY penciled a run on a dark comic like Spawn like Capullo did?!? Ramos penciled some of the darkest chapters of X-Men: Messiah Complex and his junky, cluttered panels and overly cartoonish pencils were very hard to follow and COMPLETELY took you out of the dark mood of the story.

To be fair, Ramos has cleaned up and toned down his pencils quite a bit since being on ASM (he REALLY sucked at drawing Spidey on the Jenkins stories a decade ago), but for me personally, even though Ramos' art is a lot more tolerable these days, he still does stuff in every other panel that reminds you why you disliked him so much in the first place. For instance, any civilian woman's face he draws, or the even-for-Spider-Man-super weird anatomy he still gets carried away with sometimes.

I think you're right on the money with these comments.

[Lars C]

Ramos and Greg Capullo's styles similar?!? Aside from them both being "cartoony" artists, I don't see any similarity between their styles at all. Capullo's art is MUCH more controlled, is much cleaner, far better story telling wise, and he also has a nice grasp of human anatomy and how to draw human faces (even if he does do them in a cartoonish manner).

Overall, Capullo's style is just all around cleaner and more versatile than Ramos'. Do you think Ramos could have successfully and EFFECTIVELY penciled a run on a dark comic like Spawn like Capullo did?!? Ramos penciled some of the darkest chapters of X-Men: Messiah Complex and his junky, cluttered panels and overly cartoonish pencils were very hard to follow and COMPLETELY took you out of the dark mood of the story.

To be fair, Ramos has cleaned up and toned down his pencils quite a bit since being on ASM (he REALLY sucked at drawing Spidey on the Jenkins stories a decade ago), but for me personally, even though Ramos' art is a lot more tolerable these days, he still does stuff in every other panel that reminds you why you disliked him so much in the first place. For instance, any civilian woman's face he draws, or the even-for-Spider-Man-super weird anatomy he still gets carried away with sometimes.

I agree that Capullo is a far better storyteller, it's hard to even understand what happens when Ramos draws sometimes, and Capullo has been just brilliant in Batman. But sure Ramos can do dark, he did an excellent Green Goblin story penned by Paul Jenkins a few years ago. And I think they both excell in making detailed panels.

[Zombies8MyDingo]

It varies for me. Some issues are great but others can look a bit too cartoonish or rushed for my liking, Ends Of The Earth springs to mind.

I've learned not to moan too much though. I hated Sal Buscema's art for ages on Spectacular, then something must've clicked in my mind and I loved it. Complete opposite happened with Todd MacFarlane and Mark Bagley's work, so it's all subjective really.

[ImmortalIronFist]

He's hit and miss for me. Sometimes his stuff is awesome (I really liked Spider-Island) and sometimes it just looks too out of control and I can't handle it.

[Ish Kabbible]

I'm sorry, but I don't see Marvel using Ramos' depiction of Spider-Man on Spider-Man merchandise like they did with Bagley for an entire decade, and I don't see artists lining up to use Ramos' depiction of Spider-Man as a template for how they should draw Spidey, like people did with McFarlane's Spidey for 20 years and Romita Sr.'s for 30 years.

I think what a lot of people WILL do 10, 20, or 30 years from now---especially those who aren't Spidey fans and who are objective about the art in the book---is look back at Ramos' art and go, "WTF?!? How on Earth did this guy get so much work on Marvel's FLAGSHIP character in his FLAGSHIP book?!?"

Memphis-I'm in total agreement with your assessment
This also reflects the problem of double-shipping. Ramos is appreciated by Marvel because he is very fast. Like the notoriously bland artwork from Vince Colletta in the 70s and 80s, this is what keeps him employed.

[Memphis Raines]

Memphis-I'm in total agreement with your assessment
This also reflects the problem of double-shipping. Ramos is appreciated by Marvel because he is very fast. Like the notoriously bland artwork from Vince Colletta in the 70s and 80s, this is what keeps him employed.

Yep. It's just like the notorious Greg Land debate.

[Mister Mets]

Memphis-I'm in total agreement with your assessment
This also reflects the problem of double-shipping. Ramos is appreciated by Marvel because he is very fast. Like the notoriously bland artwork from Vince Colletta in the 70s and 80s, this is what keeps him employed.

There's more to it than that. Ramos has been on some high profile Spider-Man stories. He wasn't given the opening arc of the Big Time era, Spider Island, the 50th anniversary story or Amazing Spider-Man #700 just because he was fast.

[Toxic]

i don't like his art

[spidey99]

I just think Ramos' art takes me out of the stories too much. Makes it where I'm spending too much time trying to figure out what's going on in most panels. It's just my opinion, of course, but its my opinion that matters on what I'll buy or not. I like some Spidey pictures Ramos has drawn thru the years, but just don't like it in the main Spidey titles. It's time to bring in some artists that can tell a great "Amazing" story with their art.
Happy holidays everyone

[Geardaddy]

I've never been a Ramos fan...at all. I will say that he has improved since his days on Spectacular Spider-Man with Paul Jenkins. That are was hideous, and I REALLY had a hard time with it. Still don't love his style, but it's not as bad as it once was, IMO.

[HORROR OF HOBGOBLIN]

I sometimes skip issues merely because of his art. ASM #700 will be an exception, but I mostly hate his art for the reasons already mentioned, but mostly because of the overly cartoonish, almost anime look.