Why the dislike on Ramos

[kjetass]

He can be a bit hit and miss for me. Not sure if it's a timeissue or something else, but generally his superhero-stuff back be a bit 'messy' sometimes (for me at least). On the other hand stuff like Revelations is gorgeous.

[hoopsguru]

Yes it is. It really is.

I've only learned to tolerate Ramos since he began on ASM, never learned to like his work. Cartoon-ish ness and warped anatomies detract from storytelling and immersion, and make his work look like messy scribbles, in general. Especially difficult to get into any serious moment when he doesn't draw anyone like an actual human being.

McFarlane, Larsen and Bags all had the same approach and they were three of the best spidey artists. Maybe it was because when those three drew the webhead he looked like he had much more body mass......Ramos' Spiderman looks like he has been on the Jenny Craig diet a little too long.

[hoopsguru]

Don't get me wrong, Im not a Ramos nutrider, Im just curious about why it seems that he is heavily disliked.

[the Dagman]

McFarlane, Larsen and Bags all had the same approach and they were three of the best spidey artists.

Again with this? No, they aren't three of the best Spidey artists. All four of these guys have been some of the worst artists in the history of the book. But that is my opinion. Just because you can tolerate such shoddy anatomical depictions, do not presume your opinion to be a fact for anyone other than yourself.

Marvel represents itself as the "real world". Setting their stories in real cities and locales. Using real life landmarks and street names. It makes you think it could be happening in the real world (even though we know better). And then to use an artist like Ramos, or the others you mentioned to a lesser degree, with their cartoony features and unreal anatomy, it ruins that whole illusion. At least for me. It pulls me right out of that illusion and leaves me wondering how people could be employed by delivering such crappy work as that.

[hoopsguru]

Again with this? No, they aren't three of the best Spidey artists. All four of these guys have been some of the worst artists in the history of the book. But that is my opinion. Just because you can tolerate such shoddy anatomical depictions, do not presume your opinion to be a fact for anyone other than yourself.

Marvel represents itself as the "real world". Setting their stories in real cities and locales. Using real life landmarks and street names. It makes you think it could be happening in the real world (even though we know better). And then to use an artist like Ramos, or the others you mentioned to a lesser degree, with their cartoony features and unreal anatomy, it ruins that whole illusion. At least for me. It pulls me right out of that illusion and leaves me wondering how people could be employed by delivering such crappy work as that.

Fair enough, I should have stated those artists IMO. However IMO I view my comics as a fantasy world, not so much a realistic one (again as you said, we know better). Is it ok that some of the art is cartoony and unrealistic, yes, because the characters are exactly that. A little off topic when talking about Spidey, but I love Dale Keown's Hulk, larger than life and that is exactly who the Hulk should be.....so for Spiderman, who is a character who has overblown athletic and aerobic ability, some of the "far fetched" stuff doesn't bother me (again IMO)

[atlasjj]

I love his art, as I've said in the past I believe he is one of the best spider-man artist. Again this is how I feel.

But its like any artist really. Some people love their art, some people hate it. There are artist out there that I know a lot of people love and I can't stand. Just like with Ramos' art I love it, while others hate it. Its just the way it is.

[DamnYellow]

I don't like the proportions on his art. I actually like how he depicts people's faces and expressions, but his stick-man proportions are very annoying. I also don't like the way he draws spidey...

[The Superior Michael Deery]

People are dumb and worry about the wrong things when it comes to artists.

[TheGreenGabbo]

I think he's okay. Sometimes his stuff looks great and his style just "clicks". Other times he does stuff like the last panel on this page.

Like JRJR he can be really sloppy. As others have pointed out his anatomy is ridiculous sometimes.

[Von]

Ramos is highly stylized. In cases like that, it either connects with you and you feel it? Or you don't.

Personally he's one of my favorites. It's cartoony in a way that works for me, and works for the title imo.

Other apparently are on the other side on that.

[SamSpade]

I think Ramos has really progressed as an artist and it really shows with his work on Amazing. Yeah, it's a cartoony style but he presents very fluid storytelling as opposed to similar artists like Chris Bachalo where it's very easy to get lost between the panels. Camuncoli is very decent, he doesn't do anything wrong with his pencils. It's all very clean artwork and I think he did an incredible job with the Danger Zone story line. He really nailed the lizard/Doc Connors expressions in that arc too. He's not a huge favorite of mine but seeing his work in Amazing is still compelling enough to get me to see what he's doing next.

[Mister Mets]

I don't like him for for a couple of reasons. First, too cartoony. I don't like manga, nor do I like manga inspired art. Did not particularly care for McFarlane or Bagley back in the day either for that matter. Second, his anatomy is atrocious. He draws people, Spidey in particular, in ways they could not possibly be unless they were Mr. Fantastic or Plastic Man or something. Take this panel for example:



Now take your eyes off Spider-Woman's ass and look at how Spider-Man is drawn here. Look at his torso. Spines don't work like that. We are seeing his full back with both shoulders, as well as his full frontal abdomen. Not even the most capable contortionist can come close to getting their body into such a position. What, did he have his L5 vertebrae replaced with a universal swivel joint?

He seems capable on the storytelling aspect, at least. But he really needs to use some body reference in his work. Either a model, or some photos... something to reign in that wacky anatomy he draws off the top of his head. Because art this cartoony really draws me out of the story, and gives me a "WTF?" moment. IMO, art like this should not be on Marvel's premier solo hero book.

I doubt it's intentional, but it's kinda funny that Spidey is doing a reverse brokeback pose, making sure that his ass and chest are away from the reader.

[LooneyKoala]

I personally love his art. I guess it seems to be a love it or hate it situation though, like with a lot of heavily stylised artists.

[E. Wilson]

I think it comes down to him having a really unique, stylized look, which prompts a stronger reaction, for and against.

[Cheesedique]

Don't see comparing Ramos with McFarlane or Larsen, or even Bagley. They all had their quirks, but at least when they drew people the people didn't totally look like cartoon characters.

I simply don't dig Ramos--he's good when he tones the art down a bit. I thought the art in Spider-Island was rather terrible overall, really made me enjoy the story a lot less. His art was better, a little reigned in, for the Alpha two-parter.

I wish they would get one clean, non-sketchy artist to be the sole penciler on ASM. Someone like McKone, Rivera or Kitson.