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  1. #61
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    I have to say that none of the recent crew of pencil pushers capture my desires like days of yore, which makes it extremely hard to put down money for my favorite superhero. I cannot stand Camuncoli's artwork, especially the recent Hobgoblin story. Even with my glasses on, the pages just looked like a blur of blues, blacks and oranges smashed together (might not be Camuncoli's fault I guess, blame the inker not the penciler!).

    I had hopes that with the new SSM book that a new crew of artists would come on board but it doesnt look like it :(

    At least out of the final 3 books, I can stomach Ramos' work and enjoy the finale.

  2. #62
    Senior Member kitonok's Avatar
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    He evolved a lot. So much less haters now. Before big time i disliked him too. Now ASM without him can't exist.
    Junk head. Amazing stop-motion animation. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/junk-head-2--2

    Scott Summers IS NOT a delusional egotist.

  3. #63
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    Terrible IMO seriously, he is trying too hard to be chris bachalo (which isnt a good thing) but is doing so with sharp jagged edges on everything, bachalo works (Sometimes) dew to his people and stuff being very rounded. and bachalo also gets points for adding lots of detail at times which ramos doesnt.

    Regardless i will give it to him the fact that he does draw a good hobgoblin.

  4. #64
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    I Cant even Describe How freaking Pissed and Disapointed i was that ramos Drew Spider-Island instead of say Marco Checchetto, someone who really could have made the Man Spiders look Horrifing as they should be.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsguru View Post
    I cannot stand Camuncoli's artwork, especially the recent Hobgoblin story. Even with my glasses on, the pages just looked like a blur of blues, blacks and oranges smashed together (might not be Camuncoli's fault I guess, blame the inker not the penciler!).
    no blame the colorist if your problem is with the colors not working.

    that said i cant understand your complaint on any level Camuncoli's Hobgoblins where fantastic, not as good as say Steve mcniven's on the cover but still



    that said yeah camuncolis work is not great, but IMO he is far ahead of ramos

  6. #66

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    I don't mind Ramos on Spider-Man. A Spider-Man comic can have a cartoony look IMO. Although Caselli is probably my favorite of the artists to do a lot of work with Slott on Spidey.
    Spider-Man from the beginning! Last ish: ASM #15 - Chameleon hires Kraven (first appearance!) to kill Spidey.

  7. #67

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    I don't like him for for a couple of reasons. First, too cartoony. I don't like manga, nor do I like manga inspired art. Did not particularly care for McFarlane or Bagley back in the day either for that matter. Second, his anatomy is atrocious. He draws people, Spidey in particular, in ways they could not possibly be unless they were Mr. Fantastic or Plastic Man or something. Take this panel for example:



    Now take your eyes off Spider-Woman's ass and look at how Spider-Man is drawn here. Look at his torso. Spines don't work like that. We are seeing his full back with both shoulders, as well as his full frontal abdomen. Not even the most capable contortionist can come close to getting their body into such a position. What, did he have his L5 vertebrae replaced with a universal swivel joint?

    He seems capable on the storytelling aspect, at least. But he really needs to use some body reference in his work. Either a model, or some photos... something to reign in that wacky anatomy he draws off the top of his head. Because art this cartoony really draws me out of the story, and gives me a "WTF?" moment. IMO, art like this should not be on Marvel's premier solo hero book.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Dagman View Post
    I don't like him for for a couple of reasons. First, too cartoony. I don't like manga, nor do I like manga inspired art. Did not particularly care for McFarlane or Bagley back in the day either for that matter. Second, his anatomy is atrocious. He draws people, Spidey in particular, in ways they could not possibly be unless they were Mr. Fantastic or Plastic Man or something. Take this panel for example:



    Now take your eyes off Spider-Woman's ass and look at how Spider-Man is drawn here. Look at his torso. Spines don't work like that. We are seeing his full back with both shoulders, as well as his full frontal abdomen. Not even the most capable contortionist can come close to getting their body into such a position. What, did he have his L5 vertebrae replaced with a universal swivel joint?

    He seems capable on the storytelling aspect, at least. But he really needs to use some body reference in his work. Either a model, or some photos... something to reign in that wacky anatomy he draws off the top of his head. Because art this cartoony really draws me out of the story, and gives me a "WTF?" moment. IMO, art like this should not be on Marvel's premier solo hero book.
    Liefeld would have put more junk in her trunk :)

    Seriously though, I agree that some of his anatomy work is a bit of a stretch but when you consider all the movement and abilities that Spiderman has, it isnt THAT far off.

  9. #69
    Lawn-mowing Enthusiast EuphemismForSex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsguru View Post
    Seriously though, I agree that some of his anatomy work is a bit of a stretch but when you consider all the movement and abilities that Spiderman has, it isnt THAT far off.
    Yes it is. It really is.

    I've only learned to tolerate Ramos since he began on ASM, never learned to like his work. Cartoon-ish ness and warped anatomies detract from storytelling and immersion, and make his work look like messy scribbles, in general. Especially difficult to get into any serious moment when he doesn't draw anyone like an actual human being.
    Bad news everyone...

  10. #70
    New Member kjetass's Avatar
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    He can be a bit hit and miss for me. Not sure if it's a timeissue or something else, but generally his superhero-stuff back be a bit 'messy' sometimes (for me at least). On the other hand stuff like Revelations is gorgeous.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by EuphemismForSex View Post
    Yes it is. It really is.

    I've only learned to tolerate Ramos since he began on ASM, never learned to like his work. Cartoon-ish ness and warped anatomies detract from storytelling and immersion, and make his work look like messy scribbles, in general. Especially difficult to get into any serious moment when he doesn't draw anyone like an actual human being.
    McFarlane, Larsen and Bags all had the same approach and they were three of the best spidey artists. Maybe it was because when those three drew the webhead he looked like he had much more body mass......Ramos' Spiderman looks like he has been on the Jenny Craig diet a little too long.

  12. #72
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    Don't get me wrong, Im not a Ramos nutrider, Im just curious about why it seems that he is heavily disliked.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsguru View Post
    McFarlane, Larsen and Bags all had the same approach and they were three of the best spidey artists.
    Again with this? No, they aren't three of the best Spidey artists. All four of these guys have been some of the worst artists in the history of the book. But that is my opinion. Just because you can tolerate such shoddy anatomical depictions, do not presume your opinion to be a fact for anyone other than yourself.

    Marvel represents itself as the "real world". Setting their stories in real cities and locales. Using real life landmarks and street names. It makes you think it could be happening in the real world (even though we know better). And then to use an artist like Ramos, or the others you mentioned to a lesser degree, with their cartoony features and unreal anatomy, it ruins that whole illusion. At least for me. It pulls me right out of that illusion and leaves me wondering how people could be employed by delivering such crappy work as that.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Dagman View Post
    Again with this? No, they aren't three of the best Spidey artists. All four of these guys have been some of the worst artists in the history of the book. But that is my opinion. Just because you can tolerate such shoddy anatomical depictions, do not presume your opinion to be a fact for anyone other than yourself.

    Marvel represents itself as the "real world". Setting their stories in real cities and locales. Using real life landmarks and street names. It makes you think it could be happening in the real world (even though we know better). And then to use an artist like Ramos, or the others you mentioned to a lesser degree, with their cartoony features and unreal anatomy, it ruins that whole illusion. At least for me. It pulls me right out of that illusion and leaves me wondering how people could be employed by delivering such crappy work as that.
    Fair enough, I should have stated those artists IMO. However IMO I view my comics as a fantasy world, not so much a realistic one (again as you said, we know better). Is it ok that some of the art is cartoony and unrealistic, yes, because the characters are exactly that. A little off topic when talking about Spidey, but I love Dale Keown's Hulk, larger than life and that is exactly who the Hulk should be.....so for Spiderman, who is a character who has overblown athletic and aerobic ability, some of the "far fetched" stuff doesn't bother me (again IMO)

  15. #75
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    I love his art, as I've said in the past I believe he is one of the best spider-man artist. Again this is how I feel.

    But its like any artist really. Some people love their art, some people hate it. There are artist out there that I know a lot of people love and I can't stand. Just like with Ramos' art I love it, while others hate it. Its just the way it is.
    Pull: Avengers, New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Captain America, Superior Spider-Man, Superior S.M.T.U, Ultimate Universe, Chew, Invincible, Batman & Smallville.

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