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  1. #151

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    ...?

    I didn't mean anything about shock moments, I meant over-the-top violence, which has been a staple of Batman comics for ages.

  2. #152
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    ...?

    I didn't mean anything about shock moments, I meant over-the-top violence, which has been a staple of Batman comics for ages.
    And I'm saying there is no comparison between the violence of that scene (or the rest of that era or previously) and what we've had in the past 10 years.

  3. #153
    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    The dark gritty aspect is evident in the washed out faded colors and tone for the trailer. In some ways it reminds me of the washed out colors and tone for Superman Returns. And the look can have a huge role in how the movie plays out. In many ways its like the Nolan Batman. He's on a quest. Full of doubts and unsure of where he belongs in the world. His past and present colliding. Will he become the symbol the world needs? The problem with the darker take is that its so predictable. Superhero films seem to think they have to be ultra depressing and explain everything to audiences these days because unless they do, how will we the audience understand? Superheroes are supposed to be larger than life. Bringing brightness to our world. Not adding to the darkness already present. As for bigger concerns, the look of the costume and how it plays out on screen but also whether Cavill has the acting chops to bring the subtle differences between Kent and Superman. As I've always said, if you can make Kent believable you have the audience on your side, because Superman is just icing on the cake and by his nature is a larger than life role. But Kent is a different dynamic. We have seen how it succeeds on film (Superman The Movie) and how it fails (Superman Returns).
    I don't think Brandon Routh's portrayal of CK in SR was a failure. Actually, I think Routh did a good job with what was given to him.

    Also, the dark gritty aspect is not "evident in the washed out faded colors and tone for the trailer". They are merely a visual style. Yes, they are used in those stances but let's remember that the tone of the first scenes in the teaser was to give the viewers an idea about the realistic (not "dark") aspect this movie will have. The still that was recently released also means nothing. Man Of Steel seems to have a more serious tone, yes, but serious doesn't necessarily mean dark.
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  4. #154
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    At the time Batman got his back broken, that was one of the most extreme things we'd seen. And it had shock value precisely because of how rare things that extreme were back then. You had that, Jason's death, and...what else?

    But I don't think there is any comparison between that scene and the decapitations, mutilations and all-around sadism we've often seen in recent years.

    I look at that picture of Bane snapping Batman, and it looks TAME. Batman isn't having his arm ripped bloodily from his body, leaving a grotesque stump. Batman isn't having his head bloodily punched clean off his shoulders. Batman isn't being tortured to death Hostel-style and he's not being raped from behind by Dr. Light. Bane snapping Batman's back looks like a f*cking handshake at this point.
    Sad thing is you're right.
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  5. #155
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    Man Of Steel seems to have a more serious tone, yes, but serious doesn't necessarily mean dark.
    You're right, it doesn't necessarily. But I think it will in this case. Audiences like dark, and dark is a hell of a lot easier to pull off than earnest and optimistic.

  6. #156
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    It'll probably start with a dark backdrop, with Superman as a beacon of optimism. With all the messiah comparisons, it'll be thematically like some kind of divine intervention, fate's reaction against the darkness.

  7. #157
    Junior Member Sousa's Avatar
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    I just have this uneasy feeling that they're going to try to "ground it in reality" like Batman. That seems to be the popular thing these days and I can't see it really working with Superman . I hope this movie is going to be good, I like Superman but its got high expectations , I just hope people can keep them in check once it comes out

  8. #158
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    Nolan's idea to ground Batman came from Donner's Superman.

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    All Roads Lead To Hell 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    You're right, it doesn't necessarily. But I think it will in this case. Audiences like dark, and dark is a hell of a lot easier to pull off than earnest and optimistic.
    Well, from Nolan himself (source):

    The director said that he didn’t want people to think they were doing for Superman what they did for Batman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Nolan
    “[Man Of Steel] very much Zack’s film and I think people are going to love what he’s done. I think it’s really remarkable to take on that character. Superman is a completely different character than Batman. So you can’t in anyway use the same template. But David Goyer had this, I thought, brilliant way to make Superman relatable and relevant for his audience. Zack has built on that and I think it’s incredible what he’s putting together. He’s got a lot of finishing to do on that. Superman is the biggest comic book character of them all and he needs the biggest possible movie version which is what Zack’s doing. It’s really something.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    It'll probably start with a dark backdrop, with Superman as a beacon of optimism. With all the messiah comparisons, it'll be thematically like some kind of divine intervention, fate's reaction against the darkness.
    This would be good. And I have the feeling that we'll get to see some of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sousa View Post
    I just have this uneasy feeling that they're going to try to "ground it in reality" like Batman. That seems to be the popular thing these days and I can't see it really working with Superman . I hope this movie is going to be good, I like Superman but its got high expectations , I just hope people can keep them in check once it comes out
    Goyer did say that one of the things that he took into account when writing the script is "how would the real world react to Superman's presence?".
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    Goodbye Len (november 16th, 1993 - june 12th, 2009). You were, are and always will be the best friend I ever had. I will always love you and never forget you. And please, please forgive me.

    Thank you for teaching me about love, patience and caring. Rest in Peace, my friend. I hope that wherever it is you are now, you can run and play as much as you want.

  10. #160
    Elder Member zryson's Avatar
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    You'd expect him to say positive things about the film. Remember the hype and interviews surrounding Green Lantern? How this movie was incredible and its the first installment in the next superhero franchise? How people were gushing over the effects as well as Ryan Reynolds? As for loving what Snyder has done, well that remains to be seen. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't? But all this stuff about making things relatable reminds me of how in one of the Texas Chainsaw movies they wrote a lengthy back story to explain why Leatherface is the way he is and why he turned out the way he did. I think people forget these are fantasy films. They don't have to be grounded in trying to appear like its really happening in the real world.

  11. #161
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    You'd expect him to say positive things about the film. Remember the hype and interviews surrounding Green Lantern? How this movie was incredible and its the first installment in the next superhero franchise? How people were gushing over the effects as well as Ryan Reynolds? As for loving what Snyder has done, well that remains to be seen. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't? But all this stuff about making things relatable reminds me of how in one of the Texas Chainsaw movies they wrote a lengthy back story to explain why Leatherface is the way he is and why he turned out the way he did. I think people forget these are fantasy films. They don't have to be grounded in trying to appear like its really happening in the real world.
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  12. #162
    Infme et fier de l'tre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    You'd expect him to say positive things about the film. Remember the hype and interviews surrounding Green Lantern? How this movie was incredible and its the first installment in the next superhero franchise? How people were gushing over the effects as well as Ryan Reynolds? As for loving what Snyder has done, well that remains to be seen. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't? But all this stuff about making things relatable reminds me of how in one of the Texas Chainsaw movies they wrote a lengthy back story to explain why Leatherface is the way he is and why he turned out the way he did. I think people forget these are fantasy films. They don't have to be grounded in trying to appear like its really happening in the real world.
    The fact they don't have to doesn't mean they can't. In fact, the idea of what's going to happen if you put classic Superman in our fear driven post 9/11 world is, as far as i'm concerned, just a great pitch and has a much bigger legitimacy than doing it on Captain Marvel. How would people react when suddenly an unkillable alien creature was flying around claiming to help people? I mean, you can really come up with something great. If there's one thing that is obvious from what they are letting on, it's they don't intend to make the story more "grounded" by changing Superman. They make it more "grounded" by making the things around him.....real. This is what Richard Donner, by his own admission, was also trying to do. That's the subject of Birthright and it was its best part. I just don't see why Superman should be limited in a kiddy 50's fantasy setting he hasn't even been created in. Even in modern comics, it's not like that. I just don't get this kind of reactionnary reactions.
    Superman is the ultimate archetype of the superhero. That makes him the best choice for this kind of experimentation.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  13. #163
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    The fact they don't have to doesn't mean they can't. In fact, the idea of what's going to happen if you put classic Superman in our fear driven post 9/11 world is, as far as i'm concerned, just a great pitch and has a much bigger legitimacy than doing it on Captain Marvel. How would people react when suddenly an unkillable alien creature was flying around claiming to help people? I mean, you can really come up with something great. If there's one thing that is obvious from what they are letting on, it's they don't intend to make the story more "grounded" by changing Superman. They make it more "grounded" by making the things around him.....real. This is what Richard Donner, by his own admission, was also trying to do. That's the subject of Birthright and it was its best part. I just don't see why Superman should be limited in a kiddy 50's fantasy setting he hasn't even been created in. Even in modern comics, it's not like that. I just don't get this kind of reactionnary reactions.
    Superman is the ultimate archetype of the superhero. That makes him the best choice for this kind of experimentation.
    We have discussed this over and over. Superman is fantasy, His world is fantasy. No he doesn't need to be limited to that only but really he should be. It's like Superman going to war to stop Hitler in the 40's DC didn't do it to disrespect the troops who were giving their lives for real. It's much easier and more fun IMO to have a real world environment go only so far. After all Superman is meant to be fun and not taken to serious just like any Comic Book Super Hero.

  14. #164
    Senior Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    Nolan Talks MAN OF STEEL

    In an interview with The Playlist, Christopher Nolan director The Dark Knight Rises and producer of next year's Man of Steel talked about the upcoming Superman film, comparing it a bit with his Batman trilogy.

    "Superman is a completely different character than Batman," Nolan said in the piece. "So you can't in anyway use the same template. But David Goyer had this, I thought, brilliant way to make Superman relatable and relevant for his audience. Zack has built on that and I think it's incredible what he's putting together."

    Nolan also spoke to how the scope of Man of Steel aims to match the character.

    "Superman is the biggest comic book character of them all and he needs the biggest possible movie version which is what Zack's doing. It's really something."

    While Nolan declined to any comment possible involvement in DC Comics adaptations beyond Man of Steel including the planned Justice League film he did address the unconventional ending of this past summer's The Dark Knight Rises, which the interviewer deemed "radical."

    "Radical? Hmm, yes, perhaps for the comic book fans it was," Nolan said. "But I think it was appropriate ending for the story we set out to tell."

    http://www.newsarama.com/film/christ...y-netflix.html

  15. #165
    Infme et fier de l'tre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    We have discussed this over and over. Superman is fantasy, His world is fantasy. No he doesn't need to be limited to that only but really he should be. It's like Superman going to war to stop Hitler in the 40's DC didn't do it to disrespect the troops who were giving their lives for real. It's much easier and more fun IMO to have a real world environment go only so far. After all Superman is meant to be fun and not taken to serious just like any Comic Book Super Hero.
    Never read the story where Superman captures Hitler and Staline and brings them to the Society of Nations?
    Superman was fighting the nazis. All the superheros did, even Batman (although to a lesser extend). Check on Google and see the "slap a jap" cover, or all the covers where he throws bombs at nazis boats.
    His world isn't fantasy at all. If it was, he wouldn't have met Kennedy, or Reagan, or Mohammad Ali. How can a world be a fantasy when even the presidents are the real ones?
    The problem the you guys is that you all act as if Superman has always been the way he was when you were reading him as a kid (and even when you were reading it......"Superman's secret mission for Kennedy"). Except he hasn't.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

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