Avengers Arena: Interest vs. Knowledge

[motteditor]

I believe I know all the non-original characters and like almost all of them. Which of course causes a catch-22. I *want* to read about these characters. I'm far more interested in a book with these characters than one with Wolverine or Iron Man or Spider-Man. But if the book's just planning to kill them off? Well, why bother? Anyway, I'll pick up the first issue. If it's as much just about killing off the characters for no reason, I won't get another. If the writing/plot is far better than all the publicity has led me to believe, I'll try to overlook the art and give it another chance (not a fan of Kev Walker's work at all).

[Majin Gojira]

Thanks everyone, the poll is 4 days away from closing (because I thought Arena was coming out on Dec 5th for some reason), so if you haven't voted yet, do so soon! Also, if you have anything you want to add to your vote or wish to elaborate on it, that would be spectacular. Just 33 votes from 300 in total! That's a grand sample size to have!

Again, you have my gratitude.

[DebkoX]

I think I will lost interest when the new guys are the only ones left.

[Captain M]

I think I will lost interest when the new guys are the only ones left.

3 of the 5 deaths will probably be from the new kids so you won't lose interest. ;)

[Majin Gojira]

3 of the 5 deaths will probably be from the new kids so you won't lose interest. ;)

Out of curiosity, where are you getting those numbers from? The only numbers I heard were the opposite of that (with 9 to 10 deaths rather than 10 to 12 survivors -- if one off the deaths is Arcade like it should be). But I could never confirm it (as it came from Hopeless/ twitter and I hate navigating twitter).

[Captain M]

Out of curiosity, where are you getting those numbers from? The only numbers I heard were the opposite of that (with 9 to 10 deaths rather than 10 to 12 survivors -- if one off the deaths is Arcade like it should be). But I could never confirm it (as it came from Hopeless/ twitter and I hate navigating twitter).

Oh , wait. Because of my bad English you didn't get me. What I tried to say is if 5 people die 3 of them will be from the new kids , if 10 people die 6 of them will be from the new kids. I'm just guessing..

[Majin Gojira]

I, so you believe that the majority of deaths will be from the newly introduced characters, right? I certainly hope you are correct.

[vampiric_cannibal]

I, so you believe that the majority of deaths will be from the newly introduced characters, right? I certainly hope you are correct.

I hope the opposite. Introducing new characters as fodder is worse than using existing fodder. Their place is set; new characters are variables.
No one apart from Cammi's death is likely to sadden me, and only Cammi because Annihilation was far more dangerous than Arcade.

[Majin Gojira]

I hope the opposite. Introducing new characters as fodder is worse than using existing fodder. Their place is set; new characters are variables.
No one apart from Cammi's death is likely to sadden me, and only Cammi because Annihilation was far more dangerous than Arcade.

I disagree readily with the bolded statement, as it runs counter to established narrative conventions that run far deeper than you may realize. I wish I could elaborate further but I fear tainting the voting pool.

[vampiric_cannibal]

I disagree readily with the bolded statement, as it runs counter to established narrative conventions that run far deeper than you may realize. I wish I could elaborate further but I fear tainting the voting pool.

Using big words to try disprove a point is a tactic I like to use. As such, it doesn't work on me.
Situation: story in which a bunch of acknowledged C and D-listers will die, as well as some new guys. It is rare for a C or D lister to ever make a name for itself and potentially join the B-list. I love character creation, and all new characters need to be trialed by fire before they are interesting. Pixie was a background character who was kept around merely for looking cool until Magik sold half her soul to make a souldagger and taught her teleportation. Most the existing characters here are fodder. Ex-teen book characters tend to be in limbo, die in an event, or sometimes get in something Peter David writes. I'd like some of the existing characters to surprise me and become awesome and intricate, much as Pixie did in Quest for Magik. Teen-books have a proud legacy of introducing new characters, and introducing someone during their trial of fire makes them highly malleable. Start with a single panel of them, fondly thinking about their dog, then 3 issues later they are drugged out of their minds and shooting lightning from their eyes like they've done it for years. Works well if the character is a blank slate, or close to it, so typically a background or completely new one.

I find a greater possibility a new character will be awesome over the chance an old character will become so. Life or death, given the option, I opt for new. Liberal doses of limbo and subplots and one-shots and short stories can ultimately make me like a character. I didn't care for Anole until Magik dumped him in a desert for days, which wasn't so much a trial by fire as an amusing story that endeared itself to me.

I make distinction between new characters and completely background red shirts. The latter have no importance and as few attributes as possible. You can't make a series high stakes by killing off red shirts. Introducing red shirts to be killed matters not. They'll still be red shirts in 20 years if they live. Creating shells for destruction is a time honoured tradition - GRRM makes his battles seem bloody by culling names. A few Karstarks and a minor Tyrell liven up the casualty sheet though often such characters have never appeared.

[Majin Gojira]

Using big words to try disprove a point is a tactic I like to use. As such, it doesn't work on me.

I only do so for emphasis, it is not a debating tactic.

Situation: story in which a bunch of acknowledged C and D-listers will die, as well as some new guys. It is rare for a C or D lister to ever make a name for itself and potentially join the B-list.

Unlike more C list characters, the Runaways and Academy kids have cult followings. They may only sell 20-25K at a time, but they tend to do so consistantly given the right writer. That is the key difference between them and most other C, D and even some B Listers. Compare the numbers of the current Captain Marvel run to the Runaways and Academy kids. Dismissing them as C and D list misses the primary point of the fan reaction:

They were not created to die.

The emotional ties people have with these characters are far stronger than those created to be in a death scenario. Your belief in the opposite speaks of an ignorance of the genre conventions of disaster films and horror flicks as well as this sort of story.

Most the existing characters here are fodder.

While this is true, it is rarely done en-mass and with no real greater goal. The combination of these with the above is causing a poor reaction.

Works well if the character is a blank slate, or close to it, so typically a background or completely new one.

Problem: these characters are not blank slates.

I find a greater possibility a new character will be awesome over the chance an old character will become so.

This is an odd opinion and I don't find much evidence to support it, but you remain entitled to it.

Liberal doses of limbo and subplots and one-shots and short stories can ultimately make me like a character. I didn't care for Anole until Magik dumped him in a desert for days, which wasn't so much a trial by fire as an amusing story that endeared itself to me.

You argue against your own position with pretty much all the examples you've given. None of the characters cited were "new" at the time of their breakout, but established for 2 to 3 years prior in minor appearances.

The latter have no importance and as few attributes as possible. You can't make a series high stakes by killing off red shirts.

I'm sorry, but that is just so blatantly false I don't know where to begin. At the start of any story, it is the writer's job to make you care about the character. Their 'level' or 'status' is not important. You are putting far to much value on that for all the wrong reasons. Yes, we can tell who is going to be important int he story and who is not easily as the characters are introduced, but confining any character to the red shirt bin, especially those that have held a series as long as B-Lists classics like Nova and the New Mutants is misinformed at best.

You need to break out of those boxes. Anyone can be the star of any story regardless of their 'level'. Free yourself of that hangup.

[Majin Gojira]

One last bump. Thanks to you all, the polls have passed 300 total votes. Let's see how high it can go. This is the last day to vote in this poll. The original poll will remain open until the first issue drops in case you did not get the chance to vote here. Again, thank you all for participating in this experimental survey. I hope to share the fruits of this some time towards the end of January.