New Avengers #34 *Spoilers*

**mdg1** · 11-30-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by chariset

The only way to make it make sense is to say that Strange had to be pushed past a psychological block which said "I used dark magic; I'm not worthy to be Sorcerer Supreme." If the Vishanti had offered him the title before that, he would have refused to take it back. He had to see that it is possible for him to use dark magic and not lose his sense of self before he could believe that he was worthy of the title again.

Amounts to the same thing, I think. It still doesn't explain why, if the Vishanti and/or the Ancient One wanted to help Stephen get over the dark magics thing, they sacrificed the Drumms, Victoria Hand, and possibly Jennifer Kale to do it. This sort of game is tailor-made for the "it was an illusion to test you" trope.

Individually, some of the pieces of the plotline were fairly good. But taken as a whole?

Sorry, Mr. Bendis, but I don't think it worked the way you had planned.

**chariset** · 11-30-2012, 10:14 AM

It's just about impossible to read the first story as the Vishanti 'testing' Strange (or Jericho) -- although it could have been a test that got botched. The logical candidate to duel "Agamotto" was Jericho or Strange himself, and in the end neither of them went up to challenge him until Daniel got in the way.

I'm not going to think about it too much. It was more Bendis being Bendis, and Hickman and others can smooth out the rough edges later.

**Songbird/Diamondback** · 11-30-2012, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by DebkoX

I take my hats off to Bendis. Probably the most underrated writer ever existed. I loved this ending, and the new heroes for hire hint? Damn you marvel! ;p

...I really can't tell if this is sarcasm or just blind following.

**chariset** · 11-30-2012, 11:08 AM

What touched me about the little tribute to Victoria is that it was Spider-Man who said he wished killing Daniel would bring her back. Spidey was the one who never let anyone forget that she used to work for Norman Osborn, and threw it in her face at every opportunity that he didn't trust her and didn't think anyone else should either.

And she got a statue like a full Avenger, even though technically I think she was working for SHIELD

**jackolover** · 11-30-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by chariset

The only way to make it make sense is to say that Strange had to be pushed past a psychological block which said "I used dark magic; I'm not worthy to be Sorcerer Supreme." If the Vishanti had offered him the title before that, he would have refused to take it back. He had to see that it is possible for him to use dark magic and not lose his sense of self before he could believe that he was worthy of the title again.

I thought Jericho Drum always used dark magic, so Jericho was comfortable with that. Jericho taught Stephen to use dark magic more freely?

**jackolover** · 11-30-2012, 12:38 PM

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**jackolover** · 11-30-2012, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by XPac

To some degree it might have been.

Most of them barely knew her. Some of them probably DIDN'T like her, which would be understandable given her past history. But out of respect for a person's memory, you try and be nice.

They're not going be sitting around in tears telling their most heart felt emotional Victoria Hand memories, because essentially there weren't any or any of them really. I think they grew to respect her contribution to the team, as evident by the monument in her honor, but anymore more than what we got probably would have come off as relatively fake.

I just wonder what anybody in the future is going to say when they see that statue. Was she that worthy? Or is that statue going to be the first one destroyed and not replaced?

Originally Posted by chariset

What touched me about the little tribute to Victoria is that it was Spider-Man who said he wished killing Daniel would bring her back. Spidey was the one who never let anyone forget that she used to work for Norman Osborn, and threw it in her face at every opportunity that he didn't trust her and didn't think anyone else should either.

And she got a statue like a full Avenger, even though technically I think she was working for SHIELD

Victoria Hand had a status like Henry Gyrich, in that she was just a liaison between the New Avengers and Captain America. I like that the statue showed her in a skirt. How many heroes have a basic office costume? And it was nice that Deodato got to do the statue, seeing as she was his baby at the start. He could pick which way he could represent Hand when he sent her out.

**One More Day** · 11-30-2012, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by chariset

What touched me about the little tribute to Victoria is that it was Spider-Man who said he wished killing Daniel would bring her back. Spidey was the one who never let anyone forget that she used to work for Norman Osborn, and threw it in her face at every opportunity that he didn't trust her and didn't think anyone else should either.

And she got a statue like a full Avenger, even though technically I think she was working for SHIELD

Probably Ock-Spidey talking

**Sighphi** · 11-30-2012, 01:07 PM

This story would have been good if the big reveal wasnt a complete continuity mistake.
Doctor Strange has used black magic before and handled it fine.
Marvel needs to stop with this goofy stuff.

**mdg1** · 11-30-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by jackolover

I thought Jericho Drum always used dark magic, so Jericho was comfortable with that. Jericho taught Stephen to use dark magic more freely?

"Dark/black magic" is a pretty nebulous term, really. Back in Strange Tales v2, it was "magic derived from draining life energy", and both the old Handbooks and the Marvel tarot enhancement followed that model.

Remender implied it was using magic from demonic sources (e.g. Cthon) and I guess Bendis meant the same, but with his "footnote magic", it's really hard to say.

I suppose a case could be made for Voodoo being dark magic, but in the real world, there are houngan (like Jericho & Daniel) who do "good" magic and bokors who "serve the loa with both hands". So your guess is as good as mine.

**chariset** · 11-30-2012, 05:19 PM

It's Bendis; we don't have to explain it.

(Though I do which he'd done more than hint that the Ancient One was an avatar of Agamotto and/or the whole Vishanti)

**Zen-aku** · 11-30-2012, 07:28 PM

That was perfect on so many levels, Cried a bit.

This was my favorite book since i got back into comics in 2005, i will miss it so much

**DiceRoll** · 11-30-2012, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback

I'm not asking for tears. But it barely looked like they gave her a moment of silence. Honestly, I would have been fine if they respected her for a page, but this looked like they forgot all about that when Cage shows up.

They did. It was the panel where they all stood silent with their heads bowed.

**EuphemismForSex** · 11-30-2012, 10:33 PM

Honestly, the fact that it's a statue suggests to me that this is at least the third time the Avengers have honoured Victoria Hand, and by then the mourning stage has passed. The first would've been her actual funeral, and the second would be the statues first showing. The panels there seem to me like the statue has been up for some time and the Avengers present spontaneously decided to give her a moment of silence, again. But yeah, they're still assholes.

**deathcry** · 11-30-2012, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by XPac

It really is.

I know some people have complained in the past about splash pages in Bendis books (decompression blah blah) but I REALLY think the Strange pic and the collage with Cage look back made the book for me. Sometimes a nice well done splash page gives you more than a dozen pages of text.

But this book was over-sized. With a 20-page book, the splashes are a bit irritating, even when they are pretty or relevant. Bendis should be writing a monthly book this size. He probably has the ideas, etc to do that. Just no artist would be able to keep up with him.