Low points in Batman history

[dancj]

See, Superman didn't listen, and rebuild a water plant, with some not so good results. He had to concede that Batman was right, and that Superman could not just magic away the problem this time.

Yeah, but realising he can't magic away the problem is a bit different to deciding that despite being F***ing Superman - a city it desperate need of help is somehow better off without him.

[The Duke]

No, she became an OMAC. And had no Visiony powers at all.
(the Vision is the AI Avenger that walks through wall and can get really hard or heavy, right?)

Sorry, that was my attempt at irony. Honestly the last clear memory I have of her is when she and Bruce said goodbye in a Detective issue.

She was last seen not very alive during Final Crisis. It was kinda ambiguous.

I plead ignorance on this as I left D.C. when they solicited that Bruce Wayne, the guy who was, is and always will be Batman, was leaving. I came back with the first issue of Detective.

Which is a whole different thing for me. As my sig can attest.

[T Hedge Coke]

I left D.C. when they solicited that Bruce Wayne, the guy who was, is and always will be Batman, was leaving.

How'd you make it through Dixon's time on the batbooks, then? Seeing as how Bruce also stopped being Batman for awhile there, too.

Not trolling, I'm just wondering whether you feel different about that or other Bruce-removals.

[melkorjunior]

The question for me is--who exactly is Bruce Wayne, really? He is nothing but his obsession. He's one-note. Other than name recognition I see no good reason why this incarnation of Bruce Wayne should be Batman. At some point some writer's going to have to do a rebuilding job on Wayne.

[Nite-Wing]

I mean whose interested in Bruce Wayne? Bruce isn't Peter Parker he's not an everyman who has problems that everybody can relate to. He's rich and very charismatic. If you saw him as much as possible without the dose of cynicism from Batman you'd definitely end up hating him.
Batman can't be Batman all the time so whenever he sleeps or needs to take a break he's back to being Bruce Wayne. Bruce is of course shaped by the tragedy in his youth but he's more or less over that now.

Its interesting I believe there are several stories where whenever Batman is given any sort of power he just uses it to continue being Batman all the time instead of half the time. On some level you'd reach the conclusion that being Batman is all he really wants out of life since he has everything else.

[InformationGeek]

Low point... hmmm... hard to say. I haven't read a lot of Batman, so I'm limited to just these low points: R.I.P./Battle for the Cowl and War Games. Not many like others, but what can you do?

[T Hedge Coke]

The question for me is--who exactly is Bruce Wayne, really? He is nothing but his obsession. He's one-note. Other than name recognition I see no good reason why this incarnation of Bruce Wayne should be Batman. At some point some writer's going to have to do a rebuilding job on Wayne.

Many writers have, to levels of success. I don't think Morrison's Bruce has been just a mask or a one-note obsessive. Grant's either, or Milligan's, Rucka's, Grayson's, O'Neill's had at least three different takes on Who is Bruce Wayne, really? and they're all riveting to me and flush with potential and interesting facets and interplay.

[TheGoshDarnBatman]

Low point... hmmm... hard to say. I haven't read a lot of Batman, so I'm limited to just these low points: R.I.P./Battle for the Cowl and War Games. Not many like others, but what can you do?

What.

100% with you on BFTC and War Games though. I'd share the consensus on just pre-Morrison and Dini Batman as basically the nadir of the character's history.

Also, on Killing Joke, while Barbara was fridged rather horrifically and Batman shown to be pretty much insane, as an out of continuity story those aren't necessarily bad things. But there was really nothing Batman could do for Barbara that doesn't involve all of the story breakers batgrrrrrrrrl mentioned. I've never read that laugh as Batman going, "Hey, nice work back there." but as Batman completely broken and left as a giggling husk by the trauma of the Joker's actions.

On the above, I think Morrison's reinvention of Bruce as more of the 'perfect man' and not as a one note facade is one of his biggest contributions to the character. Unfortunately few are following his example anymore.

[melkorjunior]

On the above, I think Morrison's reinvention of Bruce as more of the 'perfect man' and not as a one note facade is one of his biggest contributions to the character.

I just bought the whole Morrison run on ebay (despite the fact that I'm not sold on Damian or Batman Inc.); if his Bruce is really the reinvigorated character you suggest, I'll be pretty happy.

Now if only Wayne could have a girlfriend who lasts more than a few months. He needs a few supporting cast members that aren't Batman-related.

[booyah]

Now if only Wayne could have a girlfriend who lasts more than a few months. He needs a few supporting cast members that aren't Batman-related.

He's all work and no play, so it's all work related. I mean, he's banging Catwoman in a lot of Batman stories - and they met on the job.

[dupersuper]

I just posted this in another thread, but it kinda' fits this thread title...



Great story, though.

Hama gave Batman a great deal of dialogue that was out-of-place for the character, which was made even worse because Batman was supposedly delivering these long-winded speeches while beating the crap out of some thug.

I mean: hitting the guy should have taken about three to five seconds top; saying the stuff that Batman supposedly said while doing that would have taken at least forty to sixty seconds.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That reminds me of the 853rd centurys telepathic Durlan attack...

[Nate Hoover]

I would have to go with War Games. The ultimate Batdick.

[The Duke]

How'd you make it through Dixon's time on the batbooks, then? Seeing as how Bruce also stopped being Batman for awhile there, too.

Not trolling, I'm just wondering whether you feel different about that or other Bruce-removals.

To be completely honest, I wasn't burnt out back in the early 90s, like I was by 2007. As I've stated earlier in this thread, I really enjoyed that period of Batman.

The only two times I've left Batman before leaving for good were in 1986 when I thought comics were beyond a teenaged boy who'd found women (I came back when I heard Batdance for the first time) and Brian K. Vaughan's Close Before Striking story in Batman, which is my own choice for the worst Batman story I've ever read, and I came back when Hush started then left after D.C.'s Countdown deliberately hurt me.

It was actually Batman's demise in writing quality in the mid-2000's that got me reading Ed Brubaker's Captain America so it was a welcome disconnect.

[Haytil]

I'd be inclined to blame that more on the era/editorial direction than Hama. Because Hama is, in fact, a great writer. I think he would have been excellent on Batman under different circumstances at a different time.

I haven't read any of Hama's other stuff, but his writing on Batman was garbage. Had nothing to do with editorial or direction. Awful dialogue and awful amateurish mistakes - i.e., describing in panels what was going on in the scene, while the artist actually drew what was going on in the scene - making the panels painfully redundant. It's like Hama didn't realize his words would be accompanied by art.

Thankfully, he was taken off real quick and replaced by Brubaker.

[carabas]

I'd be inclined to blame that more on the era/editorial direction than Hama. Because Hama is, in fact, a great writer. I think he would have been excellent on Batman under different circumstances at a different time.

It's the same era and editor his replacement Ed Brubaker got.