Uncanny Avengers #2 *Spoilers*

[PwrdOff]

If Red Skull was really using Xavier powers to their full extent, he wouldn't even need to talk to Wanda, or have her awake : see Uncanny X-Force 19.1. This isn't mind-control and certainly not Xavier-level mind-control, or Wanda couldn't have snapped out of it as easily as she did. What Red Skull did was more along the lines of telepathic suggestion. We know Wanda has issues with being a mutant, we know she doesn't grasp the full gravity of her actions during HoM (this was all stated in #01).
Red Skull isn't mind-controlling her as much as he is amplifying that voice in her head that tells her she did nothing wrong. This brings up the question of why he isn't mind-controlling her plain and simple and the answer would be that he doesn't have Xavier full powers just yet. Because if he did, he could just kill people left and right by thinking about it and would probably not need the Living Propaganda to promote his ideals.

This seems like the best interpretation to me, just having Red Skull telepathically controlling Wanda is a really lame story, and actually makes her come off much worse, because she's being used as a puppet yet again. And really, there's not a soul in this world who doesn't rationalize their mistakes or come up with justifications for them from time to time, so it's not out of line for Wanda to feel this as well.

It's actually quite interesting what Remender is setting up here, and if he goes the right places with it, it could finally put an end to this whole sordid HoM affair. I guess we'll find out when this arc ends next August or some time around then...

[GokaiRed]

Wow, this thread is way more hilarious than I ever could have imagined. I mean, I knew there would be some interesting views on this issue (there always are when it comes to mutants) but I'm amazed. You could tell me that the sky is blue and I'd have a harder time believing you than the idea that Scarlet Witch wasn't mind-controlled. It seems so blatantly obvious.

Anyway, yeah, I loved the issue. At least in terms of writing. I'm sorry, but if Cassaday is the reason for the delay, then I really hope we just say goodbye to him soon, because I don't care for his artistic interpretations of almost any of these characters anyway. Especially Captain America, Havok, and Thor. Just painful renditions, and it takes ages to get them. Seems kind of a waste.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

Wow, this thread is way more hilarious than I ever could have imagined. I mean, I knew there would be some interesting views on this issue (there always are when it comes to mutants) but I'm amazed. You could tell me that the sky is blue and I'd have a harder time believing you than the idea that Scarlet Witch wasn't mind-controlled. It seems so blatantly obvious.

Anyway, yeah, I loved the issue. At least in terms of writing. I'm sorry, but if Cassaday is the reason for the delay, then I really hope we just say goodbye to him soon, because I don't care for his artistic interpretations of almost any of these characters anyway. Especially Captain America, Havok, and Thor. Just painful renditions, and it takes ages to get them. Seems kind of a waste.

Hold on a sec..

Are people actually saying that Wanda wasn't mind controlled?

That's amazing.

[Mark_S]

Hold on a sec..

Are people actually saying that Wanda wasn't mind controlled?

That's amazing.

It is and it isn't. Given the general low quality control that marvel practices as far as characterization goes it's easy I think for some to believe that this is the author pushing Wanda into the role the story needs. This is marvel, a sudden turn into being the bad guy is pretty much standard operating procedure. If the story calls for Wanda to be the bad guy then -just like in Dissasembled- she'll be the bad girl.

[pepper]

This seems like the best interpretation to me, just having Red Skull telepathically controlling Wanda is a really lame story, and actually makes her come off much worse, because she's being used as a puppet yet again. And really, there's not a soul in this world who doesn't rationalize their mistakes or come up with justifications for them from time to time, so it's not out of line for Wanda to feel this as well.

Whether or not it comes off worse is debatable but this is what's happening. It's not so bad- it looks like everyone, even Thor, is going to get a turn at being controlled.

Like I said, what she said at the grave in #1 showed she does understand what she'd done.

[sweetdumbass]

This is because of the "why was it so important for mutants to be born...martyrdom routine" line again, isn't it? Because the inner monologue on the page before that showed that she did know the destruction she caused.

It was pretty clear to me that the "why..." part meant "does the end justify the means?" and the "...martyrdom..." part was referring to the X-Men, not all mutants.

Those are two different lines addressing two distinct matters. The fact that you can't seem to differentiate them has me concerned about your reading comprehension.
Her jab at the X-Men, whether you feel is justified or not, really holds no weight in the issue at hand. You mustn't know the character very well if you're saying she has no problem with her mutant heritage. You might as well say she has a perfectly healthy relationship with her father.

Hold on a sec..

Are people actually saying that Wanda wasn't mind controlled?

That's amazing.

People saying she is mind-controlled mustn't know how mind-control work in the MU. Especially when a powerful telepath such as Prof X is involved. If she was mind-controlled, she would have at no time talked back to him or snapped out of it when she saw the Prof corpse.

[XPac]

It is and it isn't. Given the general low quality control that marvel practices as far as characterization goes it's easy I think for some to believe that this is the author pushing Wanda into the role the story needs. This is marvel, a sudden turn into being the bad guy is pretty much standard operating procedure. If the story calls for Wanda to be the bad guy then -just like in Dissasembled- she'll be the bad girl.

Yeah, but I don't think you are technically considered a "bad guy" when you're being mind controlled.

[XPac]

I wonder if they are gonna somehow throw Magneto into this story arc.

You've got a nazi trying to erradicate mutants and messing with his daughter. On paper that's all the incentive in the world for him to jump on this.

[Mark_S]

Yeah, but I don't think you are technically considered a "bad guy" when you're being mind controlled.

I agree, it's just that we've seen so many good characters suddenly go bad because the writer wanted them to that while she is being mind controlled in this story it is also very easy to believe that for the sake of the story that the writer wants to tell Wanda has just turned bad. It is mind control but it could just as easily be done without mind control. Character consistency is not something that marvel is very good at. If this story crosses over with any other title I wouldn't be very surprised if in Uncanny Wanda is being mind controlled but in another title she's just turned bad.

[Mark_S]

I wonder if they are gonna somehow throw Magneto into this story arc.

You've got a nazi trying to erradicate mutants and messing with his daughter. On paper that's all the incentive in the world for him to jump on this.

Might depend on how long the story arc is. It might be just a quick story arc to meld the Uncanny Avengers team together and bring Charles back to life.

[Jokebox]

I gave this book another chance. At $4 there are better books for me to buy.

[DeadXMan]

Those are two different lines addressing two distinct matters. The fact that you can't seem to differentiate them has me concerned about your reading comprehension.
Her jab at the X-Men, whether you feel is justified or not, really holds no weight in the issue at hand. You mustn't know the character very well if you're saying she has no problem with her mutant heritage. You might as well say she has a perfectly healthy relationship with her father.


People saying she is mind-controlled mustn't know how mind-control work in the MU. Especially when a powerful telepath such as Prof X is involved. If she was mind-controlled, she would have at no time talked back to him or snapped out of it when she saw the Prof corpse.

expect there have been cases of heroes breaking from thier control and talking back ( AKA resisting) otherwise The X-men would be at the mercey of Mastermind and mesmorio for a few decades now.

[graffiX]

People saying she is mind-controlled mustn't know how mind-control work in the MU. Especially when a powerful telepath such as Prof X is involved. If she was mind-controlled, she would have at no time talked back to him or snapped out of it when she saw the Prof corpse.

Yes, this. Xaviers brain was "fused" with Red Skull, so with that being said we only have to assume it's not at full capacity (50/50 perhaps).

Plus, I'm sure Herr Skull doesn't have a full understanding/know how to his newfound powers and their extent.

That's how I read it anyways.

[DeadXMan]

Yes, this. Xaviers brain was "fused" with Red Skull, so with that being said we only have to assume it's not at full capacity (50/50 perhaps).

Plus, I'm sure Herr Skull doesn't have a full understanding/know how to his newfound powers and their extent.

That's how I read it anyways.

Same here.

Chuck died from I am guessing a stroke by Scott and how long the brain was without oxygen. I'm betting it is no where near the best use by date....

[DeadXMan]

I wonder that the person spouting about concentration camps was Red Skull in Avs X: Con #5