Did Schism Lead to AVX?

[XPac]

But would they have sided with Cap, (both Logan and Beast) if Schism never happened?

Beast certainly. As I said, he had issues with Scott and parted ways with them before Schism.

Logan may or may not have. From Logans perspective, the best course of action was to take out Hope. He might have an easier time doing that being on Scotts side. Ultimately Logan was on his own side for the first act of the story. Yes, he was a part of Steve's unit invading Utopia but he wasn't really going along with either Scotts or Steve's agenda at that point in the story.

[XPac]

Yes, Logan because he's a cash cow and Marvel wants him to be on the winning side, and Beast because he's all about hating Cyclops these days, and Marvel doesn't seem to have noticed yet that most X-fans can't stand him anymore; even Hickman was suprised the other day on Formspring to see so many people hating him.

Considering all the X-Men really ended up changing sides I think Logan would have ended up on the winning side either way. It's simply a question of him siding with the Avengers during the first, second, or third act.

As far as X-fans not being able to stand him... I think that's an exaggeration. There are some that like him and some that don't. Though if push comes to shove, I still would argue he'll draw more readers and more money than any other X-men.

[Omega Alpha]

As far as X-fans not being able to stand him... I think that's an exaggeration. There are some that like him and some that don't. Though if push comes to shove, I still would argue he'll draw more readers and more money than any other X-men.

I was talking about Beast, not Logan.

[Juggernaut Punch]

The Avengers might have been more inclined to play ball if Wolverine was around to vouch for Cyclops and the Utopians. Beast was already gone pre-Schism and good riddance to him.

[XPac]

The Avengers might have been more inclined to play ball if Wolverine was around to vouch for Cyclops and the Utopians. Beast was already gone pre-Schism and good riddance to him.

I suppose the other question mark is Cyclops though. Would he have been more inclined to play ball with the Avengers if Cable didn't tell him to keep Hope away from them.

Because even if Steve is willing to play ball, it's sort of a moot point if Scott isn't willing to play ball with him. Though given that Cable wasn't mentioned at all in AvX, perhaps that whole thing ended up being a non-factor.

[s_stabeler]

I started reading comics just before AvX, so this may seem stupid, but when exactly did Scott move to Utopia? In other words, if Schism never happened, would it not be possible Cap would approach Scott at the JGS, not Logan? It may well have led to things being rather more diplomatic. ( not least because Scott would have ALL the X-men around, not just the Extinction team. Sure, the Extinction team is some of the most powerful mutants, but combined with the staff of the JGS... ( not to mention the fact that the while building is a Danger Room, remember? It was used in canon to create a gun once, it can surely create something to hold up the Avengers.

[AntiPatriot]

Scott moved to Utopia during Dark Reign, because the Anti-Mutant-Movement in San Francisco began to rise and Norman Osborn marked him as a criminal, so he moved away in order to create a save, independent haven for mutants.

[jackolover]

I suppose the other question mark is Cyclops though. Would he have been more inclined to play ball with the Avengers if Cable didn't tell him to keep Hope away from them.

Because even if Steve is willing to play ball, it's sort of a moot point if Scott isn't willing to play ball with him. Though given that Cable wasn't mentioned at all in AvX, perhaps that whole thing ended up being a non-factor.

I'm looking at Beast and Logan never having left Scott Summers. If they were on side with Scott's philosophy and hard friends, would they have left that Avengers meeting with Storm as soon as the Phoenix was mentioned? I think they would have and then Steve Rogers would have had real Schism between the Avengers and the X-Men. No device for detecting the Phoenix in the Secret Avengers, and Logan as an adversary, knowing what the Avengers would bring to Utopia. I think Logan would have got Scott to evacuate utopia and get them mutants out of there, and the Avengers would have had a hell of a time finding Hope then. Instead of the Avengers taking Hope to Shangri La, the mutants could have taken Hope to the Savage Land for safe keeping, and then the Phoenix would arrive, with no secret weapon for Iron Man to split it into 5 pieces, because the Secret Avengers wouldn't have had the science to collect some Phoenix. No P5 and the PF fries Hope because she can't accept it.

[XPac]

I'm looking at Beast and Logan never having left Scott Summers. If they were on side with Scott's philosophy and hard friends, would they have left that Avengers meeting with Storm as soon as the Phoenix was mentioned? I think they would have and then Steve Rogers would have had real Schism between the Avengers and the X-Men. No device for detecting the Phoenix in the Secret Avengers, and Logan as an adversary, knowing what the Avengers would bring to Utopia. I think Logan would have got Scott to evacuate utopia and get them mutants out of there, and the Avengers would have had a hell of a time finding Hope then. Instead of the Avengers taking Hope to Shangri La, the mutants could have taken Hope to the Savage Land for safe keeping, and then the Phoenix would arrive, with no secret weapon for Iron Man to split it into 5 pieces, because the Secret Avengers wouldn't have had the science to collect some Phoenix. No P5 and the PF fries Hope because she can't accept it.

Regardless of Schism, I suspect Logan would have still tried to kill Hope. That had nothing to do with Cyclops. And I suspect Scott would have taken that even harder than Steve would have. So Logan woudln't have been on Scott's side either way. For the first part of AvX at least, Logan was on Logan's side.

Beast, as me and a couple of other people have mentioned, parted ways with Scott long before Schism. But if he were hypothetically still on Scotts side then that's one less comic book smart guy on Steve's team. Truthfully that's not a HUGE loss since Beast didn't do a whole lot. He was certainly a major part of the Secret Invasion team... but they frankly didn't end up making any sort of impact.

[jackolover]

Regardless of Schism, I suspect Logan would have still tried to kill Hope. That had nothing to do with Cyclops. And I suspect Scott would have taken that even harder than Steve would have. So Logan woudln't have been on Scott's side either way. For the first part of AvX at least, Logan was on Logan's side.

Beast, as me and a couple of other people have mentioned, parted ways with Scott long before Schism. But if he were hypothetically still on Scotts side then that's one less comic book smart guy on Steve's team. Truthfully that's not a HUGE loss since Beast didn't do a whole lot. He was certainly a major part of the Secret Invasion team... but they frankly didn't end up making any sort of impact.

Wasn't it the SA that collected a speck of Phoenix that gave Iron Man his Pheonix splitter?